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| Subject: I'm afraid that you'll find the majority of today's (British) youth stands with me and Owain | |
Author: Roberdin | [ Next Thread |
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] Date Posted: 16:51:03 12/03/04 Fri In reply to: Owain (UK) 's message, "right-wing socialist" on 22:35:03 12/02/04 Thu Most people that I talk to (those who are British, at least) are usually pro flag-waving and pro-welfare state. I fail to see why this makes us 'facist'... no-one is proposing that we are superior to other races and have a destiny to capture all of the world or anything - we believe that all are equal, but when in Rome (that is, Britain), do as Romans (Britions) do (wave the flag). [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Its "Owain and I". Come on now. lol. Just kidding | |
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Author: Kevin (U.S.) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:39:23 12/03/04 Fri [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Not exactly... | |
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Author: Roberdin [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 19:07:52 12/03/04 Fri No, it's "Owain and me", because if it was 'I', then "Today's youth stands with I" would also be correct - the sentence must make sense with the and clause removed - and it is not, AFAIK... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: indeed roberdin | |
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Author: Owain (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 18:38:06 12/03/04 Fri Indeed Roberdin. I am very hopeful about the future and the role todyas youth will play in it. I am thankful I wasnt born 30 years earlier as my life would probably have been one of frustration and anger. As it is I believe we will soon be able to get Britain back on track and end the leftist disaster story of the twentieth century. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You are probably not fascists, but… | |
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Author: Steph (U.S.) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20:22:12 12/03/04 Fri Some people get very worried about this because strictly speaking fascism is a form of socialism. What Ludwig von Mises called socialism of the German pattern. It differed from orthodox Marxist socialism or orthodox democratic socialism in that it called not for state ownership of the means of production, but rather state control of the means of production. While democratic socialism was an out growth of Marxism that developed in the 1890s when many Marxists realized that in democratic capitalist societies, the working class has no revolutionary potential, in as far as their standard of living tends to increase. Fascism on the other hand is a development of the German welfare state. Modern democratic socialism like Blair’s Labour Party are in fact mildly fascist in as far as they have renounced the goal of state ownership of the means of production and substituted the idea of state regulation and welfare. However, most democratic socialist parties, have maintained the internationalist bent that is a legacy of Marx’s idea of the international working class and are of course democratic. Orthodox fascism will exhibit the following symptoms: revolutionary violence (aimed against real enemies of the fascist state such as labor unionists, democrats and capitalists; against competing forms of socialism e.g. social democrats and communists; and against scapegoats such as jews, gypsies, etc.), extreme nationalism, antipathy to liberal ideas (representative democracy, capitalism, individual rights etc.), state control of the means of production, and a robust welfare state. Now of course not all fascist states or movements have all of these characteristics. Notably most did not carry revolutionary violence to the extreme seen in Nazi Germany. Argentina for example while fascist was not as revolutionary as Germany. The more of the above traits a person or movement has the more fascist it is. That is not to say that the two of you are fascists, in fact, if you are against increases in state power by the current labour government then you are of course less fascist than them. There is nothing wrong with patriotism, pride in your country for its long history of democracy, individual rights, and industrial achievement and a desire to defend it. But people do get leery when they here nationalist and socialist together, now I hope you understand why. B.T.W. As a libertarian, I must ask why in the name of god are you in favor of the welfare state? Cheers, Steph [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |