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Date Posted: - Tuesday - 02/28/12 - 4:16pm
Author: James (m-31" Pyxis")
Subject: rudder repair
In reply to: Gitano Vela (M31 #95) 's message, "Rudder Posts" on - Tuesday - 02/28/12 - 2:13pm

I pulled my rudder for repairs after finding some corrosion in the bronze bolts that hold the rudder on the post. I found 2 of the 6 bolt were missing heads at the post the other 4 were very difficult to remove. I had to cut them out. After I epoxy filled and faired the rudder and then rapped the wood and post with fiber Glass. That was 2 years ago and the rudder looks great. I also placed a zinc on the rudder shoe and post.

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Replies:

[> [> [> Blues Traveler Pyxix Rudder Repairs -- Gitano, - Tuesday - 02/28/12 - 5:44pm

Hi James. I just called your phone number - it didn't work. Are you in Mexico? Please email your phone number, or just give me a call. I want to pick you brain about those repairs you made.


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[> [> [> Rudder problem -- Seatz, - Sunday - 03/ 4/12 - 11:45am

Hi James and Gitano,
thanks for the response.

The bad news is that the Windvaine has been removed and isn't there anymore.
We are looking for a used one but don't have the $3000 laying around just now :)

I haven't removed the the rudder yet and by the looks of the other ends of the rod's and bolts it will be a big job since the plugs are epoxied in the rudder at the end.

James, did you replace the old rods with new bronze ones and which size did you use? i measured them and it seems to be 8mm. i can get bronze rod's shipped over from Rhode Island but they will be 3/8 i guess. would this fit or do i need to drill bigger holes?

It might be good to put a howto on this in the project section since it seems like a common problem after 40 years with these kind of rudders.

I will try to email Kathy and other people who have done this before to get some more info before i start ordering the wrong stuff. it might take a while to ship to St. Thomas as well.

Thanks again.
Seatz


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[> [> [> [> thred new rods -- Ardi "Tygeta" m31, - Sunday - 03/ 4/12 - 7:36pm

I did it for my boat, not a big deal. Cant remeber the size of the rods but i think it was 5/16 silicon bronze.
They start from 12" the top one, to 24" the bottom one if I remember right. They are not all horizontal but the first and the last. I got the silicon bronze rod and cut in the right length in 6 pieces, on each one I hammered one end to make it thicker so wouldn't go through the rudder shaft and to be in the safe side I put a washer, on the other ends with a tool that i bought in a hardwear store I made the threds for the nuts. Then I ran it through the shaft and the teak rudder without taking the rudder out. Do not tighten them to much because the rudder will expend from the water. So make the ends, put a washer, run it through , put anothet washer , put a lock washer and then put the nut on. You gonna need a vise though, to hold the ruds to hummer the ends and make the threads.
Good luck.

Ardi


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[> [> [> [> [> here is a web-site for silicon bronze -- Ardi, - Sunday - 03/ 4/12 - 8:10pm

Get one long piece 8' and cut it yourself http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7821&step=4&showunits=inches&id=301&top_cat=850


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Rudder problems on M32 "Blues Traveler" -- Seatz, - Monday - 03/12/12 - 11:42am

Hi Ardi,

thanks for the website.
it turns out the rod is 5/16 Diameter (0.3125")

And i got the rudder of last weekend but now i wish i hadn't because it was actually still attached very well.
first i got those wooden plugs out and discovered that another nut was broken off.
After trying to loosen the other nuts they all broke off and once all nuts were off there still wasn't much movement between the ruddershaft and the wood. then after prying and hammering a putty knive between the shaft and rudder and using a big screw driver and crowbar i finally got some space between the shaft and rudder and with some more brute force i could see the rods finally.
unfortenatly i did damaged the wood quite a bit which is a shame.
Then i had to hacksaw the rod's and finally got the whole rudder off.

i did read in some posts how the rod's were attached to the rudder but because the shaft was covered in a few layers of paint and antifouling i could't quite see how.
then after sanding it down i noticed the little round rim.

But as you said you don't have to take the rudder of and just hammer the rods out. that didn't work for me because the end of the rods were all corroded. although the beginning at the shaft were ok.
and the most bottom one doesn't come out because there is not enough space between the shaft and the keel. even when you turn the wheel all the way sideways.

sorry for bad explanation but English is not my first language.

Now i wanted to order a 8ft piece of the C655 5/16 bronze rod from onlinemetals because they are one of the few that have that size and they are pretty cheap.

Problem is: they only use UPS as a shipping option and to the US Virgin Islands that would cost me $120.
Other problem is that i can't really use the boatyards address here because things do get lost easily so i use USPS and have it delivered to the post office by "General Delivery" but UPS doesn't want to deliver it to the USPS post office and i have to pick it up from there office which is a lot of hassle and sometimes included extra fees and costs.

I can have the rods. (could be 2 pieces of 4ft) send to a address on the US mainland which only costs $12 and then have them send it by USPS to the USVI which is between $30 and $40 but i don't really know anyone in the US (except for a few "friends" in NY that never have time) that are willing to do this for me.

Anyone here like to help me out please?

now i really wish i hadn't removed the rudder because the rods were still good at the beginning of the shaft and i could have reinforced it a bit and launch the boat.
now we are delayed even further.

Thank you in advance.
Seatz
s/y "Blues Traveler"


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Don't ! -- Ardi, - Thursday - 03/15/12 - 6:41pm

Get a hole 8 feet rod , don't tell them to cut it. You will cut the pieces there when you can measure them. Else you might end up with 2-3 short pieces that will not fit.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> already did -- Seatz, - Friday - 03/16/12 - 11:14am

Too late. i already ordered 2 4ft pieces.
based on my measurements i can cut the 6 pieces out of this.
they are not all the same and the new one don't have to be as long as the old ones because the holes in the back of the rudder are quite deep and the thread doesn't have to stick too far out.

i did add 2 inches to every pieces just to be on the safe side and to make the wider end on the rudder shaft.

maybe when the whole thing is done i will write an article and post it to Bill for on the website.
i did take same pictures of the whole process of taking of the old rudder.

Thanks again.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Don't thred them more than it need -- Ardian, - Saturday - 03/17/12 - 8:35am

The threds would corrode faster than the rest, so don't thred them beyond of what you need. When you put the nuts they have to be a little lose because the teak ruder will expend from the water, that is the problem with cracked ones that people fiberglass. Don't fiberglass the rudder, that will make it rott from the standing water encapsulated in fiberglass.Use Anti-Corrosion Spray at the threds-nuts and the other end, you can find it in almost any marine store. No need to epoxy the teak plugs, just put bottom paint and plug them in. Mine have been there just fine for 6 years so far. Put a lot of bottom paint in the rudder, tripple of what you use in the hull, fill all the scratches and gaps.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> ic -- yan b, - Saturday - 03/17/12 - 2:22pm


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> howto remove the 2 lower bronze rods? -- Seatz, - Tuesday - 04/ 3/12 - 10:10am

Hi Ardi,

thanks for that info, that's very useful and i knew i shouldn't epoxy or fiberglass the rudder because of the problems other mariner owner's had with there rudders.

I finally got the bronze rods last week end have started to flatten the ends of the rod but i can't get the 2 lower ones out because the rudder only goes 45 degrees sideways and the flat end is hitting the back of the keel.
i looked into disconnection the rudder post and the gear and wheel so i can move the whole thing 90 degrees but this seems quite a mission. the only solution i can think of is cut a bit out of the end of the keel and then fill it with epoxy again.

anyone any better ideas?


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Try to bend them as they come out -- Ardi, - Wednesday - 04/ 4/12 - 10:35pm

I can't recall how I did but they are not hard to bend , So as they start coming out of the rudder shaft bent them so they don't touch the keel. Don't remember exacly how I did , long time.

Good luck.


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