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Fri, May 27 2022, 14:03Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 123456[7]8910 ]

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Date Posted: - Thursday - 02/ 1/07 - 8:21pm
Author: Chuck
Subject: Bill, can you claify?

The following post was put on cruisersforum discussion board this evening. Since Bill is the expert perhaps he can clarify this a bit. Here is the copy and paste;

The sales brochures on the above-listed Mariner website clearly state that the Mariner 35 and the Tayana M36 were designed by William Garden. Brochures for other models suggest that Clair Oberly was the designer/builder.

This was the era in which fiberglass boats were just making their appearance on the market, and those built in the Far East were also making their debut. Given the tremendous savings to be had by building in the Far East, there was a rush to produce beautiful boats for the U.S. and European markets.

I had a long love affair with the Cheoy Lee Rhodes Reliant 41 design, and visited the Cheoy Lee yard in Hong Kong several times over a number of years.

Unfortunately, it was also the era when some folks played fast and furious with designs and royalties. Cheoy Lee, after building a number of beautiful RR 41's, came out with their own "Offshore 40" design, selling at 2/3 of the price of a RR41. It was the identical boat, with a mirror-image tri-cabin design, iron rather than lead ballast, and minor other changes. They neglected to pay Phil Rhodes for ripping off his design (I visited with him in New York shortly before his death....he was furious about this).

By the way, the lovely RR41 then sold for $29,000 new and the O/S40 was $20,000 new.

I have no personal knowledge of what Clair Oberly may or may not have done vis-a-vis the Garden Mariner designs, but as has been noted the "Oberly Mariners" look a heck of a lot like the Garden-designed ones :-)


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[> Well............................ -- Bill Kranidis, - Friday - 02/ 2/07 - 11:58pm

Hi Chuck.

I don't think that there is any mention on the website that Garden was the designer of the TM36. What happened is that Clair, during liquidation of FEY, sold maybe just one of the M36 molds and they ended up in Taiwan.

As far as Garden having been the designer of the M35......lets put the dots together. Hardin used to work for Garden. Hardin was one of the first Americans to look into the Far East for boatbuilding. Hardin and Clair were good friends..........:-)

I spoke to Bill Garden (he claimed that ONLY the M35 was his design), I spoke to Clair, got an email from Clair's chief carpenter, and got alot of information concerning this issue. It's all under the Far East Yachts pages on the website. I arranged it that so anyone can see, step by step what really happened.

What do I think ??? Bill Hardin was the person responsible for the infusion of Garden influenced designs to the Far East. Do you blame Clair for seeing such a beautiful design as the M35 and expanding it into a full line of cruisers with the help of such competent crew as the Japanese were ??? I wish I had the chance to do that :-)

The fact that later, Garden's influence reached Taiwan's shores and building quality suffered greatly, is indeed a travesty.

I say, kudos to Bill Garden for being one of the best naval designers, kudos to Bill Hardin for being a great businessman and kudos to Clair for believing in a design and building great boats in the proccess.

Now, the Taiwanese boatbuilders.......................:-)

Bill Kranidis

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[> [> Thanks Bill -- Chuck, Mariner 40, Sea Trek, - Saturday - 02/ 3/07 - 2:35pm

Although the individual that originally posted the thread and needs to continually prove his importance and knowledge points out that the Tayana Mariner 36 brochure does indeed say it is a Garden design. Thanks though for once again providing us with further details about our great boats

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[> [> [> Chuck, I just checked out the thread you were talking about -- Bill Kranidis, - Saturday - 02/ 3/07 - 4:21pm

Hi, Chuck.

Please tell that guy to learn something about advertising and PR. By the time the TM36 was built, Bill garden had no rights to the name and design than my next door neighbor did. If they could call it a Garden design and suffer no consequenses why not do it ??? Blame Capitalism for it. !!! Jesus H. Christ !!!. Looking for importance is more like it. Tell the guy to give me a shout :-)

Bill Kranidis

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[> [> [> [> Passed it on -- Chuck, Mariner 40, Sea Trek, - Saturday - 02/ 3/07 - 10:48pm

Passed on your response. It is a pity that some folks have nothing else to do with their lives than impress on everyone else how smart and important they are. I need to go sailing again.

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