| Subject: Re: Episodic Quote of the Week |
Author:
~Steve-o
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Date Posted: 16:04:56 06/13/02 Thu
In reply to:
Kira the Evil Eppy Empress
's message, "Re: Episodic Quote of the Week" on 15:05:09 06/13/02 Thu
First off, apologies to JIM for airing this out in his forum, but it was made public, so we here we go.
>>>It's exactly the kind of cheap jab that convinced me
>>>that Kira was not, in fact, serious about her offer to
>>>expand the episodic into more than soaps.
>Seriously, I have no idea where your cheap
>jab is coming from.
Maybe it comes from the fact that the entire time I was out pimping the Episodic to the other fiction writers I knew on the net who were not soap writers, in an effort to help you "broaden the Eppie's scope" as you said, you were busy in the forum making replies to my posts that were prefaced with "Now, I know you don't like soaps," or, "Since you're not a soap writer." The entire time I spent with the Eppie I was constantly reminded that I wasn't a soap writer and didn't "understand" where they were coming from as writers. And, choose you to admit it or not, most of the comments meant to seperate me from the soap writers were coming from you, Kira, not the other producers. You're the voice of the Eppie, and when you take a matter onto a personal level, it's the Eppie that's speaking.
>I have never been anything less than serious regarding
>expanding the Episodic's reach, and I'd love to know where
>you're getting the idea that I'm being disingenuous in my
>offer. Hmph.
Maybe it's the fact that your "community" is still aimed at soap fans and soap writers. Maybe it's also the fact that, since I've left, there've been very few additions to the site that aren't soap-oriented or that have value for non-soap authors.
Or maybe the fact that the only non-soap series that won "Eppie Awards" was Mu (Yes, I submitted Ford as a test of your seriousness. That fact was made public in my forum before I even submitted).
Or maybe it's just what I noted above, that you, through constant "good natured" jibes, seperate non-soap writers from the elitist group of Eppie soap writers.
>As Jim pointed out, the original comment is an
>independent opinion by one of the producers involved
>in our workshop, not my own. And in fact, if you'd
>read the whole thing in context, the writer is
>remarking that he wants more emphasis on the
>fantasy elements -- more descriptions, more graphics.
Actually, I did read the whole thing. I also agree with JIM's statement that it sounded like a review of a fantasy story from someone who doesn't like fantasy.
I know that you, personally, weren't responsible for the comment, but if you're going to offer up something on your site, you should at least be willing to stand by it, whether you wrote it or not.
<to JIM>
>First, thanks for clarifying that misunderstanding for
>Steveo, who oh-so-cruelly cast aspersions on my
>interest in broadening the Episodic's horizons.
I didn't "cruelly cast aspersions" on anything. Everything I've said about the Eppie I've said quite publicly and plainly. Everyone who reads Ford knows what I've said and why. I don't "cast aspersions," I state my beliefs very plainly.
>Didn't change his mind, heh, but at least you
>corrected him -- thanks for that! :)
>Finally ... so bloomin' what if they're not
>that knowledgable of the fantasy genre? Everyone has
>to get their first taste somewhere.
Aye. But that was never an issue I brought up.
>Our workshop participants represent such newcomers. Why
>not? Shouldn't they be represented?
Wow Kira, we're branching off into whole new territories of defensive retaliation now. Congratulations.
>Now, ahem, maybe if one of you guys had taken part in
>this workshop before, you could have represented the
>more fantasy-knowledgable sector of the audience.
And if Eppie had been made more accessible to those who don't write soap operas, there would be some people hanging around still to take part. But since your prior behavior made it less than inviting for us, we're not there.
Don't tell us you're going to invite us in with open arms and then constantly remind us that we're different from you, as you did before.
>When I opened the workshop, I specifically stated that
>I wanted a variety of series in each group -- I'd love
>it if each participant produced a different type of
>series. But that can't happen without people like
>you. (Yipe, why do I suddenly feel like this is a PBS
>membership drive?)
Then, again, you need to change tactics with the Eppie. If you want to draw in more non-soap series, which I personally would like to see despite what you may think, you need to make it more inviting to people who aren't soap fans, don't watch soaps, and have no interest in reading soaps. Right now, almost everything from your news section to the contents of your forums are soap related.
You also need to start recognizing more series that aren't produced by Eppie members.
>But instead you stay away from the Eppy kvetching that
>we're too soapy. Exactly how are we supposed to get
>non-soapy, when producers/readers such as
>yourselves don't participate in the forum or respond
>to info requests?
You're the editor Kira, that's for you to figure out. It's up to you to make your site more welcoming for us, not for us to make ourselves at home.
But, I've already told you the reason I left. You continuously seperated me from the soap writers with off-handed remarks. This after I pushed the Eppie heavily on the other writers I knew. And if you don't believe I was pimping the Eppie every chance I got, ask JIM and JR.
If I didn't delete my EZBoard after moving off of it, I'd show you myself.
>I mean, cripes, I can extend the invitation and throw
>my welcoming arms out from now till doomsday, but
>until some of you get off your high horses and
>unclench the ol' buttocks enough to join in, nothing's
>going to change, is it?
The defensive attacks aren't helping your case either. You're asking us to come join you, and you're asking us to come humbled. Why should we? What do we have to gain by being part of the Eppie? What specifically are you offering us that would make kow-towing to you and standing idly by while you call us tight-assed and self-righteous worth our time?
I've got my own readers, and hits mean nothing to me, I write for fun. And I'm happy with my layout, so I don't need some Dreamweaver flunky telling me how to change it. I'm also in almost constant contact with other authors who I admire and who give me feedback.
So why should I join the Eppie other than to get more abuse from you?
>So stop yer whining and start taking part in the
>Episodic
Again, why? So far, all you've said is that we're whining and we need to stop and join the Eppie. That's not convincing me.
No, I don't like the direction the Eppie goes right now. No, I don't feel welcome there. But that's not my problem. If you want me to become a contributing member to your community, you need to change. You need to address the issues that I have problems with, not me. And if you don't feel that you need to be more welcoming, then apparently you don't need me as much as you're saying.
>But it would be a shame if you made that decision,
>because the Episodic would truly be enriched by your
>participation.
Exactly. And I would like that, but you need to quit with the bashing. Calling us names because we're not a part of your group is only furthering my belief that you're a cliquish lot. I want you to prove me wrong, I really do, but so far you're not.
>And you would be, too.
Possibly.
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