Author:
Kira the Perhaps Not-so-evil Empress
|
[
Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
]
Date Posted: 18:34:09 06/13/02 Thu
In reply to:
TechnoAtheist
's message, "Re: Episodic Quote of the Week" on 16:05:53 06/13/02 Thu
Hi TechnoAtheist!
>Kira did proclaim:
>
>>Aw, kvetch, kvetch, kvetch, can'tcha do anything else?
>
>Sure, I sleep on occasion too.
Hee. Kvetching does take a lot out of me too. Sleep is very good.
>I'm guessing it's for the same reason that he doesn't
>publish a manga himself. Graphics take A LOT of effort
>to do. One of the most frustrating thing about being
>an artist is that what takes you hours to do often
>gets ignored.
Oh I totally agree here. But he's already created graphics for all the characters. Inserting them within the episodes would take little extra effort.
>>This makes these pages look
>>stark and oddly out of place with the rest of the
>>site, which throughout uses lovely anime-inspired
>>pictures for illustration. Some images here and there
>>on the somewhat bleak, white-text-on-black page would
>>make it far more captivating on the eyes.
>
>Maybe. Maybe not.
True, it's all up to the eye of the beholder. There were two of 'em in the workshops and they both felt the same way (and I feel that way too), but that certainly doesn't mean others automatically have the same impression. Others could well find the black background and small white text without paragraphs attractive. All the workshop crew was saying is, they feel otherwise. (And so do I, FWIW.)
>It all depends on the tone that the author is trying
>to present. By defining what a character looks like,
>you remove a bit of imagination from the reader. In
>some respects, I've fought myself from really
>describing any of the characters in my series unless
>their features or some aspect of them added to the
>plot. I'd also note that a large number of very good
>manga aren't really that visual. There are certain
>aspects that can be breathtaking as the author takes
>advantage of the media, but I've also seen some anime
>that run 30 minutes with two heavily shaded immobile
>characters simply speaking to each other.
LOL, yes indeed. Sometimes things really are best left to the imagination, and I know many producer/authors feel that way. But in this case, I don't think Mu's producer is among them, because as I said, he does have several images for each character. Breaking up the text with some kind of visual element would -- for me -- be more interesting. (Blah. Sorry, I should have come up with a better word than "interesting" but hey, I'm tired.) :)
>Yep, because your audience consists of folks who are
>writers. Talk About Comics (oddly) is base more on art
>and comics than serialized stories.
But there are serialized works that combine graphics alongside text, and those are the ones I'm hoping to attract.
For example, Legendary -- oh crud, I just realized that in my comments to Steve, I forgot this series! Legendary was a Featured Site at the Eppy, and it was highly nonsoapy. It was another anime-fantasy inspired series. Unfortunately, the creator has since removed the site, so I can't show it to you guys (if you haven't seen it). But anyway, this is a series that included Flash art, audio broadcasts, as well as text. It was an impressive effort, possibly the best one I've seen at combining the many elements available to producers on the Web. Most of the nontexty stuff was used as "extras," so that people who didn't want to deal with it didn't have to in order to enjoy the site.
That's the sort of combo-platter I'm hoping to find and attract to the Eppy. Alongside pure text series, pure graphic series, soapy series, scifi series, fantasy and humor and mystery series ... I want it all, baby.
>>Ironically,
>>there's a whole 'nother segment of snarkers who
>>complain that the Eppy is TOO text-based and doesn't
>>show enough interest in video- or animated series.
>>I'm not sure how we could simultaneously be such
>>anti-text snobs and backwards
>>anti-video/graphics neo-luddites. Quite a talent!
>
>Nah, no one is ever satisfied.
Ain't that the truth!
>>Anyway, the whole purpose of the workshop is to get
>>people to think outside of the box, to process new
>>ideas. Suggesting that Dave (Mu's producer) add
>>images to enhance his episode pages is simply one way
>>of getting him to make a choice that he may not have
>>considered before.
>
>Good points.
Thanks. :)
>>Finally ... so bloomin' what if they're not
>>that knowledgable of the fantasy genre?
>
>Not such a good point.
>
>I don't watch soap operas. For me, they're dull,
>repetitive and unoriginal. Ok, so she's a nun with
>strong Mafia ties caught between the love of a good
>man and running her family Alpaca farm. But without a
>clear story line and a foreseeable conclusion
>eventually the author will fall into the same cliches
>that every other soap opera falls into.
I hear you, and believe me, I've seen more crappy soap opera retreads in this websoap world than you've seen hot dinners. But your above equation/formula is simply not true for all series. I mean, maybe it's true for About Schuyler Falls, although I sure hope not. (And I don't think of ASF as a soap, but that's another issue).
And the point I was making is that ... well, let's switch the example around. Say you were taking part in the workshop. As a nonsoap fan examining a soapy series, you would be able to offer a completely different perspective to the producer. No, you wouldn't tell him/her to included a jetpack-wearing cyborg alien (part of our assignment expressly states that participants should offer advice that is appropriate for the style of writing). But you might come up with a different, less soap-cliched way of resolving a plot twist.
Similarly, a soap-writer (a good one -- and they do exist!) might be able to offer you a new perspective on character relationships, for example, or perhaps in building a storyline to a climax and cliffhanger that will keep your audiences guessing. Not saying you can't do this now, but hearing a different POV on these subjects could be enlightening for everyone.
>Mind you, it's precisely the use of those familiar
>themes and story lines that strike a chord with the
>audience and make them want to read more. They're
>milestones that an audience expects the story to
>reach, and if it doesn't it's either viewed as
>disappointing or "breakthrough".
Meh. Not all the time. Granted, there are certain aspects of this sort of writing that are traditional, but I've found that veering away from the typical milestones has an awful lot going for it.
>Mu has some of those same types of elements for Manga,
>but if you don't realize them, or try to have it fit a
>different model, it just doesn't work as a whole.
>I'd also note that having read a bit of Mu, I didn't
>really find it that compelling to complete for other
>reasons.
Granted! I'm sure it would have been beneficial to Dave (Mu's producer) to hear those reasons. Anyway I fully agree with you, you can't judge something by trying to fit it into an entirely different genre.
But these workshops aren't really about "judging," per se. They're about offering advice and feedback. Actually, they're also about the workshop members learning how to critique writing, design, and all the other aspects of webseries production. By discerning the flaws and successes of someone else's series, you can learn an awful lot about how to improve your own. I'm sure that the people reviewing Mu gained as much by visiting the site as Dave did by reading their feedback.
And that's the purpose of the project. :)
>Would Schuller Falls benefit from my suggestion that
>they add an intense rivalry between two cybernetically
>enhanced rivals of an ancient criminal ring who both
>love the same manipulative woman? Maybe, but I don't
>think that it makes sense in the world that you've
>established.
LOL. Well, it'd be an interesting development, that's for sure! But no, that's why (as I mentioned above) we do insist that workshop members offer suggestions that are genre-appropriate. The ideas have to work in the fictional world that the original producer has created.
So ... maybe, not so much with the cybernetically enhanced rivals in "About Schuyler Falls." :D But I think you're putting your talents in a tightly constrained box that they don't need to be in. Your work probably consists of more than robotic things fighting other robotic things. (I'm not sure what series you write, I'm sorry!) You must have your own thoughts on character and plot development that aren't sci-fi/fantasy-specific.
I dunno, you could offer a unique perspective on some of the series' adventure or action plots, and tweaking the characters to make them less predictable and more spontaneous. Ways to add humor, ways to speed up the pace... I mean, all these things transcend genre.
Feedback like this doesn't have to come only from the people who write exactly the same type of series that you do.
>> Our workshop participants represent such
>>newcomers. Why not? Shouldn't they be represented?
>
>Absolutely, and they're input should be balanced
>accordingly.
Believe me, I would have loved that! We had a participant who had to drop out of the project who was more familiar with the fantasy/adventure genre. I was really disappointed with that.
>>.Exactly how are we supposed to get
>>non-soapy, when producers/readers such as
>>yourselves don't participate in the forum or respond
>>to info requests?
>
>I'm not sure, really.
Hee! Me neither.
>
>granted, I was only peripherally aware of
>episodicReview when I started. Being interested in
>getting exposure, I went to your site and scanned it.
>The eleven featured spots were all web-soaps, the
>general discussions focused on web-soaps, and even the
>recaps featured web-soaps.
Hm, this must have been after Legendary folded. But anyway, The Legacy isn't a websoap. The recaps have a few non-websoaps in there (depending on the week). Station VII, The Legacy, By Any Other Name, The Hollow, Mu ... all different genres.
Forum discussions are tricky. It tends to be a vicious circle, y'know? If someone doesn't post about a topic, it's not going to exist; and yet, if people don't see other posts about the same topic, they're not gonna post because they think the topic isn't interesting to others.
Right now there are discussions about general writing concepts (character development, plot progression), web design, favorite genres ... not everything's focused on websoaps. The fact that most of the people posting there are websoap producers doesn't mean that the threads are limited to that topic! We all deal with the same issues, and you could certainly jump in with your POV.
>I really didn't find anywhere for humor, fantasy, or
>anything of the sort.
>
I can understand that. When you say you didn't find anywhere... do you mean a forum category specifically for those genres?
>I didn't dismiss it because it's a web-soap forum, I
>decided that it wasn't for me because I didn't feel I
>had anything attractive to the bulk of the audience.
Wah! That's not true. The more people like you who post, the more others with the same interests will feel comfortable about joining in. We already have a few sci-fi/fantasy folks on board (the people I listed in my response to Steve), and you would definitely be welcome to join in!
>True. It's my fault for not noticing the welcoming
>arms.
No. Clearly I didn't extend them wide enough. (Stretches....) There! See 'em now? :)
>>But it would be a shame if you made that decision,
>>because the Episodic would truly be enriched by your
>>participation. And you would be, too.
>
>True as well, I'll send my write up as soon as I get a
>chance.
>
>Thanks for your comments!
No, thank you, TechnoAthiest (sorry I don't know your name...) I truly hope to see you around the Eppy.
[
Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
]
|
Feedback: 