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Subject: Re: Michael Morre(sp?) Makes Me laugh


Author:
sarah
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Date Posted: 14:15:59 03/26/03 Wed
In reply to: Jilly 's message, "Michael Morre(sp?) Makes Me laugh" on 08:48:01 03/24/03 Mon

i'm not really shocked by the booing. i just think it is so ridiculous considering his whole movie is about how state violence manifests itself in violent kids. i mean he won an oscar for a documentary that challenges the whole military industrial complex. that is the point of the movie. then, when he says what is already said in his movie he gets booed. it is so funny that everyone is paralyzed by the fear that they will be blasted for not supporting the war. if everyone who really had questions aobut the war came out and said it, i think they woudl find lots of friednly company

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Replies:
[> Subject: I have an opinion


Author:
KeithO
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Date Posted: 16:25:03 03/28/03 Fri

Well, I would normally side with all you liberals (myself included) but recently I've become really good friends with a guy who is an ex-Marine. And he said something that I thought was true ... and that is:

The military over there watch television. So, they are witness to everything that transpires back home. And with the absolute need for orders to be followed, it's certainly not difficult to understand how undermining the war that may or may not be just (see all the fucked up things the Iraqis have already done) puts those in the military in a tough situation.

One thing that we can all agree on is this ain't 'Nam.
But on the flip side, it isn't WWII.

I think that when the sandstorm clears there will be documented evidence to support our claims. Let's not forget it's Saddam Hussein. I hate Bush too, but christ, he's not Saddam.

I think what Michael Moore did was a bit overzealous, but that is my criticism of him in general (in his books and movies). But, I think there is a bit of respect due to our military. Why? Because a lot of those kids are stupid. They have no future, they joined to do something, see the world, fuck hookers in Thailand, do drugs in Amsterdam, anything but go to war. And that's exactly where they are. And my personal stance on people who are in tough spots is to support them, in what means I see appropriate.

In this case, I will not be vocal against the war. I will not be vocal for it either. We are there for one reason. We all know why.

Is that wrong? Probably. But if we didn't have shit loads of money in this country, that supports a kick ass military that could beat any country (probably several at once), we wouldn't have the opportunities that we do.

If we continue to gain access to military bases around the world, which is the main point of this war (the oil too, but not directly) we control the distribution of our wealth throughout the world.

Will there be a holy war? Yes, but is this it? I don't think so. But eventually we'll see it. We promote products, the Middle East promotes faith. But they got some great products so we need 'em. Even if that means challenging their faith with MOABs and M-16s.

So, yeah it's really fucked up. But I do feel bad for all soldiers involved. That's a shitty situation.

Really looking forward to the 19th! Hope everyone is feeling well and looking good!

Love
Keith
[> [> Subject: Juxtoposition


Author:
sarah
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Date Posted: 08:37:10 03/30/03 Sun

How interesting is it to watch the NCAA tournament right now. On one hand you have these 18-22 year olds playing basketball and fighting to stay in the tournament. then at half time you have updates on a whole different class of 18-22 year olds that are fighting in Iraq. it is just so strange to me, and at the same time so sad. i agree with keith that you have to support the kids that are there even if you disagree with the leadership that put them there, or for that matter, if you disagree with the military in general (it is classist, racist, sexist, heterosexist...pretty much a mirror of everything fucked up in our society). it is really important to separate administration from the actual people in the military. we all know that commanders in chief don't usually have huge records of combat experience. one of the signs i saw at an anti-war protest said "support our troops, bring them home." i guess that sort of sums up the ways in which you can be critical of the war while still supporting the people giving their lives to fight.


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