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Date Posted: 13:12:32 06/04/03 Wed
Author: Laura
Subject: Re: Food in Traininig
In reply to: David 's message, "Re: Food in Traininig" on 08:43:19 06/01/03 Sun

We have extremely food motivated dogs and use food routinely in training - as well as toy rewards routinely (moreso than food actually). I have used food on the ground a little on a mat (for jumps), but wean off of that to having it come to me just for training purposes.

We have not had any trouble teaching these dogs the food refusal. We do so initially without any correction. JMO - but I really don't like seeing dogs lower their ears or worse, back up when food is thrown or offered. If a person takes their time with the way we teach it, most dogs won't need much or any correction- even if they do, it's much, much further into training when a foundation has been layed. The benefit to not using compulsion to teach this exercise is that you will avoid seeing as much of the avoidance behaviors around these situations that can lead to greater problems (such as refusal to preform the exercise, etc). It makes it easier to start to proof out other situations.

During exercises it is not too difficult for most dogs, to proof out the extra food on the field. The dog is always in an exercise in trial or at heel (except the Search and Bark - but generally the dog's mind is on the decoy :). The food typically will not be placed in direct line of where a dog needs to go for an exercise (such as the scent discrim or the retrieve). However, as with anything, if you proof above and beyond what can happen in trial, then you can be more relaxed :) I toss food and toys at my dog in the positions (and reward him by hand with food intermittently - he knows the difference), I put toys (balls, tugs, you name it) and food all around and right next to where I throw his retrieve object, we toss and offer food and toys during heeling, and so forth. I've gotten good at doing these things by myself since I usually train obedience alone at the park :)

Laura




>Hi Ann,
>
>I think you are right, of course, in that most dogs
>can tell the differences between exercises and
>certainly have no issue with food from the handler's
>hand. And I believe that food refusal is a pretty
>easy exercise to teach.
>
>However, I think there could be potential problems
>with using food as a place marker on the ground and
>the loose food you will encounter later at the higher
>levels.
>
>I have no actual experience with this, so someone's
>actually done it, please jump in.
>
>Missed you at the PSA trial. I certified as a decoy
>and worked the trial yesterday. Lots of fun and a lot
>of similarities to Mondioring.
>
>See you on Thursday.
>
>David
>
>
>>David wrote:
>>
>>>Food is a great motivator, but you may find it a
>>>problem later on when you have to introduce the food
>>>refusal exercise and, of course, there is loose food
>>>on the field at the higher levels.
>>
>>Hi David,
>>
>>I used to think the same thing, but I have spoken to a
>>lot of folks with years of experience that use food
>>(i.e. Schh tracking) yet also have their dog trained
>>for food refusal as a poison proofing measure so they
>>won't get poisoned while on the job. They all claim
>>that the dog comprehends it is a diffent excercise or
>>situation.
>>
>>This is a subject that really interests me as the
>>breed I ultimately love is the Rottweiler. (The
>>Malmonster I work now is actually a Rottie in a Mal
>>body!!! But I digress.....) I am convinced that if
>>you take a good working rottweiler, given
>>rewards of food and challenge of a fight, you can
>get
>>them to do anything. I want to get a Rott pup to
>>raise for Schutzhund and maybe also do MR with it.
> I
>>will most likely use foood and Kongs as rewards,
>but
>>as I say, it is something I am still learning
>about.
>>
>>Playing the Devil's advocate, couldn't the same
>>argument be made for "toy/object" rewards? If for
>>example, I use a tug or tennis ball for the jump
>>placement, would that give him the idea he can now
>go
>>and grab whatever distractions are out there?
>This is
>>a problem I am having now with my Mal that needs
>to be
>>broken if he is going to do MR. He wants to grab
>>anything lying around on the field, and this will
>>definitely cause problems later in MR.
>>
>>BTW, I am just tossing these ideas out for
>discussion,
>>as I really don't know the correct answers.
>>
>>See you at the Empire Trial,
>>Ann R.

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