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Subject: Not exactly


Author:
JeffF
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Date Posted: 08:16:47 08/01/02 Thu
In reply to: Mark7 's message, "So Far..." on 23:04:04 07/26/02 Fri
 One Israeli lunatic shot Rabin. To say the Israeli people killed him is like saying the American people killed Martin Luther King. Hardly an accurate description. I'll admit it was true he was shot by a member of his own side(Like Sadat).
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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: What about Palestinians?


Author:
Mark7
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Date Posted: 23:47:04 08/01/02 Thu
They are all suicide bombers, right? That's why Israel keeps them in a week long curfew and when they have few hours to gather food or drink they shoot tank cannons into a crowd of mostly women and children.

Mistake? Who has been convicted for this "mistake"? I know, there is an inquiry! But it won't find anything.

As for Pat Robertson the criminal cruciader, he seems to have quite a flock of braindead fundamentalist rednecks ready to kill in the name of Jesus Christ.

Not to mention some of the bloodthirsty Rabbis I have seen preching their Godspell on national TV! Talk about racism, bigotry and hate!

Redneck idiots always point out at how some Palestinians were glad when the twin towers were hit by terrorists.

Well, I have seen many fellow Americans laughing when some villages in Afganistan were carpet bombed. I have also seen how ordinary Israelis treat ordinary Palestinians in ordinary circumstances on neutral territory (turistic hotels outside of Israel). Repeatedly it was the Jews taunting and provoking a confrontation.

No not all Jews did it. Nor did all Americans laugh at us killing scores at a weeding in Afganistan. But nor do all Palestinians are suicide bombers, yet we do seem to take their lives very casually here in the US, as well as in Israel.

However, enough of these exist to establish patterns of hate. And Israel not prosecuting anybody for the recent F16 blunder is morally equivalent to Arafat's not aresting members of Hamas.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: How do you decide


Author:
JeffF
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Date Posted: 08:01:06 08/02/02 Fri
In wartime who to prosecute when mistakes are made in war? How do you decide what is an honest mistake and what was deliberate? All of this needs a full scale inquiry before it can be decided. How far do you want to take this? We've made some mistakes in Afghanastan in terms of civilians being hit instead of intended targets. Do you want somebody prosecuted for that? Does it matter whether it was intentional or not?

I'm not going to deny that there are some Jews who would like to eliminate all Arabs from the Earth. They are a minority but they exist and it's a problem. Still, the people in Israel are tired of going to funerals and most of them long for peace. I hope somebody on the Palestinian side makes a bold attempt for peace as Sadat did and as Barak tried to do, following in Rabins footsteps.

One thing to remember about suicide bombing is that it's counterproductive. It brings the palestinians further away from peace and a full state of their own.

The high holidays are coming up in September and I'll spend them at my parent's small synagouge in Connecticut. If it makes you feel any better, Mark, my parent's Rabbi makes no secret of how much he hates Sharon.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: As far as needed


Author:
Mark7
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Date Posted: 10:35:23 08/03/02 Sat
I told you before some years back on DP, and I will repeat.

I believe any man should defend his country. Yet any man who seeks a lifetime career in military has a moral problem. He is a hired killer. The worse criminals and the worse terrorists in history have been men in uniform acting with the blessing of the national army and heads of state.

It goes for Mao's Cultural Revolution, Stalin's KGB as well as Hitler's SS.

The only way democracy exists is when it manages to put a lid on the criminals it employs.

When war brokes out, the worst criminal instincts in all of us come to surface.

Yes, I want to know that men who kill intentionally in war, on my side go to jail. And those who kill in war out of stupidity do not get a chance to do it again. I want that for American pilots who bomb weddings (if it is their mistake) or for intelligence officers who can't point to American officers where Canadians are training.

I served drafted in an army some 20 years ago and I know that 77mm tank cannons do not go off by mistake in the middle of a city crowded with women and children trying to get food and water for the first time in a week.

Only fools can call that an "accident". That was a deliberate provocation ment to intimidate and show who is boss. So was the shooting of a F16 missile into an appartment full of women and children.

I also know how militaries "investigate" such "mistakes". It is the biggest sham cover-up you can get.

And dispite the New York tragedy, I believe those who laugh at our carpet bombing in Irak are doing America a disfavor.

If you are religious you know the Bible says the Earth is ruled by Satan. It is a common belief in all Biblical religions, old and new Testament.

A consequence of this is that it is a lot easier to kill than to heal. The easiest thing on earth is to hurt another human being if you set your mind to it.

Everybody knows this instinctivelly, and that is why we are so revolted by suicide bombings. Because we know that Anybody can do them and we cannot protect ourselves against that by force.

Yet Israel cannot force the ethnic clensing of an entire nation by force either. And it cannot refuse legal rights to 5 million people without unleashing the worst instincts in these people.

Whatever grief Israel has with Siria or Irak, it doesn't give Israel any right to steal Palestinians their homes, land and right to live in the land of their birth.

You keep saying there will be no peace unless all Arab nations make peace with Israel. I believe you are wrong. I believe peace will only come when Israel makes JUST restitutions to the Palestinians it has robbed.
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