Re: Questionaire -- Back Talk

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Subject: Re: Questionaire

Author:
Pam

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Date Posted: 22:44:13 10/07/01 Sun
In reply to: Mark7 's message, "Questionaire" on 22:04:35 10/07/01 Sun

As long as there are conflicting ideas about religion, politics, human rights, etc, there will always be terrorism. The IRA terrorist attacks on English holdings weren't related to Israel and Palestine. There have been many terrorist actions over the decades (and centuries) that have nothing to do with the middle east.

The only way terrorism will be completely stopped is if there is total, complete world peace, which I just don't see happening any time in the future.

I find it interesting that some of the Afghans are decrying the military strikes against Afghanistan's military places, because "some civilians" were killed. And the thousands of people in the WTC weren't innocent civilians? They were all anti-Taliban undercover agents, working to wipe Bin Laden out? I also find it fascinating that Bin Laden's "God" tells them to slaughter thousands of people who are uninvolved in their religious war, in the name of Godly justice. How is killing a couple of hundred pentacostals and Catholics in the US going to affect Islams, Muslims, etc in the middle east?

I find this method of thinking akin to the US deciding that the way to fight gang violence over here is to bomb Russia because some of the guns that are used by gang members are Kalishnikovs.

No, it's not possible to eradicate terrorism, period. The Israelis and Palestines aren't the only terrorist groups, and they certainly won't be the last ones to spring up. Any and every intolerant, dominating, cold-blooded religious (or pseudo religious) group uses acts of violence as a way of proving their strength and that "God" is behind them. The Catholics did it centuries ago (but it wasn't called terrorism then), and it will continue until Christ himself appears and tells everyone to shut the hell up and quit declaring that THEY know the one true way. I imagine He's pretty darn sick of all these groups putting words (and deeds) in his mouth.

Pam

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[> [> Subject: Germany and Japan

Author:
Mark7
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Date Posted: 23:58:45 10/11/01 Thu

Here's my main point. After WW1, Germany was badly beaten, and the financial punishment was so harsh, it had to invent Hitler to get out of the recession, so America had to fight them again.

After WW2, America treated Japan and Germany better than any other defeated nation was treated in history.

We cannot imagine today going to war against either of the two nations, nor do American citizens have reason for concern when traveling over there.

Can we honestly say that we treated Arabs in general, Palestinians in particular fair?

We shall need to fight them again and again, until we learn to treat them at least as fair as we treated the Germans.

We even forced the French to give back Saar to Germany because the population voted that way.

What would the population vote in Gaza, should they be able to? Israel's rule?

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Germany and Japan

Author:
Pam
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Date Posted: 00:35:05 10/12/01 Fri

Excuse my denseness, but what in the hell are you talking about?

Let's see...we gave Japan and Germany trememdous economic support after we beat them in a war, and our troubles with the middle east won't end until we do the same with them? Geez, did I sleep through our victory in war with them? When did we declare war on Palestine, defeat them in battle, and refuse to then help rebuild their country? Tell ya what, I am POSITIVE that the US government will be more than willing to aid the middle east in the same way, as soon as you let them know that we actually DID declare war, fight a war, and win a war with a middle eastern country. I have a feeling they must be as clueless about that bit of history as I am.

Now, I must say that I take exception, EXTREME exception to your statement that Germany "invented Hitler to get out of economic recession". Taking this marvelously warped statement at face value, it appears that you are saying that after WWI, the German government was so distraught over the recession that they more or less HIRED a supremicist dictator to exterminate races, solely because the US would then declare war on them, bomb them into the ground, then provide economic aid? Mark, I have to say that that is the most seriously fucked up bit of logic I have ever seen from anyone, anywhere. Except perhaps Hitler's logic in selecting which groups merited genocide. I can not believe that you actually believe that is true. Please tell me that I misunderstood your statement?

Pam

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Germany and Japan

Author:
JeffF
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Date Posted: 06:50:45 10/12/01 Fri

It's true that after World War I, the Versailles treaty created unnecessary crippling conditions for Germany. It's also true that they were severly hurt by the worldwide depression that was hurting most countries. Germany was hit by excessive unemployment and inflation at the same time.
Invent Hitler to get out of the recession? Nice try. But Hitler invented himself. Don't forget that Germany was also subject to constant street fighting as socialists and others vied for power. The Nazis were among those fighting. The severity of the fighting scared people. So did the depression. Hitler, a spellbinding if crazy speaker, took advantage of all of this.
Also there were opportunists in the weak German government who thought they could work with Hitler and contain him and the Nazis would take a small role in a new government. Von Papen in particular, who was tried and incredibly acquited at Nuremberg did more to help Hitler come to power to try and further his own career than anybody else did.
It's true that Hitler first came to power by election. Some of that was people seeing him as a popular savior, but a lot of that was simple fear. The SA, then his most powerful organization was intimidating people into voting for him.
I agree that the Versailles treaty was a serious mistake and led to a lot of German resentments, but let's also not forget that most of that treaty was designed by France and England. Woodrow Wilson, the US president at the time had tried to go in a different direction with the League of Nations and Congress wouldn't go for it.