| Subject: Catch-all responses |
Author:
Tom
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Date Posted: 21:10:39 09/18/05 Sun
In reply to:
Paul
's message, "Re: If the forum gets out of hand...deletion?" on 12:31:57 09/16/05 Fri
>You made a positive claim, can you please back it up?
What do you want to see it backed with? Because the Lord is Truth, when you open your heart to receive His word, you need nothing else. When I was a skeptic I was so totally oblivious to this idea, that now trying to explain it to a skeptic is very difficult to do indeed.
I'm sure you think that surrenduring your life to Jesus is totally out of the question for you. If that's true, then it would have to take something very powerful and supernatural to make it happen, right? You also probably think of me as being a little bit "out there" because I did surrender my life to Jesus.
A few years ago, I was you. I know you're thinking NO WAY because of who I am today, but you'll have to take my word for it. I looked at church-goers and believers in general as being a bit out there. Never in a million years did I ever think I would become "one of them."
It's my experience of change that speaks the loudest. I cannot describe it, and even if I did find a way, writing about it would probably not do any good. Now when I hear people scoffing at the bible or at the testimonies of Christians, I see my old self in them, and I am so thankful to the Lord for throwing out a lifeline and saving me from a sea of willful ignorance and foolish pride.
You're probably thinking that my experience of becoming a Christian is somehow due to a lack of knowledge, common sense, or that my mind is very gullible, or perhaps even one card short of a deck. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm a regular guy. What sets us apart is that I allowed God to come into my heart and change me... and He did. If you want to experience that change, you can. (It will explain an awful lot more than what I can write in this message board!) But if you want to stay as you are, you have that choice, too.
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>Paul: You're arguing with someone who sincerely believes
>“inspirational” words automatically metamorphize themselves
>into “fact” as soon as spoken. Someone’s been spending far
>too many hours watching two-bit televangelists on TV.
N/A has that partially correct. My belief in the word of God is truly sincere, but the "facts" come from experiencing the manifestation of God's word in my life. I hope someday you will allow yourselves to experience that. In the mean time, I'm sure I don't have to advise you to steer clear of two-bit TV evangelists. They do for the Lord what Grizzly Adams did for shaping television history: not a whole heck of a lot.
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>You offer as proof of this belief, the testimony of
>religion, that religion is the path mankind must follow.
I did not offer any such "proof". See, this proof that you're looking for is a kind that does not exist. I think every skeptic, as I once did, requires something physically substantial to base their beliefs on. "God, if you're really there, send me a miracle! Show me proof so that I know you're real!" The problem with this is that God does not work this way. He is who He is, and He does not reveal himself in ways that conform to the desires of skeptics. He gave his word to the entire world, that BY FAITH, all who want to be saved can be saved. I'm sure you're familiar with John 3:16. The key is to believe.
When Judgement Day comes and the Lord tells you that your names are not in the Book of Life, what is going to be your reply? "But God, how were we supposed to really know you existed? We couldn't see you! You never talked to us!" God gives everyone the chance to come to Him through faith. He also gives them the freedom to choose otherwise. What, then, will you say when you are cast into the Lake of Fire? "Whoops?" For as long as you are alive on this earth, you have the opportunity to accept Jesus. But if you die as someone who refuses to believe, you're doomed for eternity.
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>You appear to suggest only christians can go to heaven. So
>everyone existing prior to the time of Jesus had no heaven >or hell to be concerned about.
If you say that all believers are Christians, then yes, only Christians will go to heaven. Before Jesus was on earth, sins were placed upon unblemished animals which were then slaughtered. I don't know what all animals were acceptable, (perhaps goats, which I believe is where the term "scapegoat" originated) but I know for sure that lambs were used. That is why Jesus is often referred to as the "Lamb of God". All of mankind's sin was placed upon him, and like a sacrificial lamb, he was killed. I also know that while Jesus walked the earth, he excercised His divine authority to forgive sins.
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>only the members of your cult (who agree with your
>interpretation of the bible) go to heaven.
No. If you believe the earth is 4.6 billion years old and that you evolved from organic soup, but also believe in Jesus, repent of your sins, and accept Him as your savior, you will go to heaven. I believe in the historical accuracy of the Bible because nothing has ever disproven any part of it, and if you choose not to believe certain parts of the Bible, you might as well also choose not to believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Unfortunately, the church, by not attacking evolution at every angle, is discrediting the very scripture they're teaching. Any church that accepts God's creation as an evolutionary process is, in fact, allowing its parishoners to create a false image of God.
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>While Eve was being tempted by the serpent in the middle
>east, the rest of the population of the planet was
>blissfully unaware of the antics of the psychopathic >middle eastern God. This fact pretty much kills genesis.
>According to genesis, Adam and Eve popped into existence in
>Iraq a few thousand years ago, then mankind spread out from
>there.
First of all, we don't know where Eden was. Genesis does not say Eden was in Iraq. It was located by a river called Euphrates, but that doesn't necessarily mean its the same river with the same name today. Eden could have been around Fargo, North Dakota for all we know. The earth was wildly different back then. And Eve was one of just two people on earth at that time.
>To date, not one shred of evidence supports any of
>this theory; mountains of evidence refute it.
I still haven't found anything that can disprove man's origin stemmed from two, created people about seven or eight thousand years ago. So again, I will accept God's word over man's.
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>(And the existence of dinosaurs blows [Genesis] clear
>out of the water.)
Quite the contrary. There are lots of references to dinosaurs/dragons in the Bible, and all kinds of artifacts found around the world that display dinosaur-human intervention. That cannot scientifically prove dinosaurs and humans coexisted, but I take God's word over man's. Death is a result of man's sin, and therefore did not exist before Adam and Eve sinned. As hard as it may seem to believe, not so much as one ant was stepped on in that garden before man sinned.
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>Do you read the Bible?
Yes I do. That is how I know that Genesis doesn't say Eden was created in Iraq. ;) But I certainly do not claim to be a scholar of the Bible. There are some very wise people who can quote scripture from the top of their heads pertaining to all areas of life. I cannot do that. I often remember things that the Bible says, but couldn't tell you where they are written or quote verbatim without having to hunt down the verses.
>This is the same thing, rather you've raised the bible to
>a level of a god.
The bible contains the words of God, written by men through the Holy Spirit. It is indeed the most important literature in existence. But the Bible itself is just a physical book made of paper, paper pulp, ink, binding glue, or whatever, and is not a god.
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>Creation has a long way before becoming a scientific
>theory.
It has been one for quite some time now, and it is slowly gaining popularity. But if you're talking about how long it may take to get the kind of government funding evolution gets in our public institutions, you may be very right about that. It may never happen.
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>I find that hard to believe when in a different thread you
>claimed evolution attempts to explain how the universe, and
>life formed. Evolution explains the genetic change in the
>generations of lifeforms, abiogenesis is the origin of
>life, neither have anything to do with the big bang.
Good point, and I thank you for the clarification. Because everyone I know who believes in evolution also subscribes to the big bang theory, I concede I hastily lumped it together, and I assumed you were a big-bang theorist. If someone believes God created the universe with a big bang and then created all of the animals we see today as living or fossilized as stated in the Bible, then we can't call them an evolutionist.
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>Its not fear, rather I find it pointless. It would be like
>me trying to convert you to become Hindu, you don't believe
>and it doesn't fit with how you perceive reality.
For many, I think that is a perfectly viable answer. But we also know from scripture that a seed of the knowledge of God's existence is planted into each person born on earth. Let's face it, who hasn't asked themselves the meaning of life, and questioned the finality of death? For some, that search takes them on the path of righteousness because they choose to put their faith in Jesus and reap the rewards thereof. But for others, they choose to reject all knowledge of Jesus and accept some other religion, possibly one of their homeland, ancestors, or one that suits their lifestyle best.
Tom
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