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Date Posted: Monday, January 30, 06:43:37pm
Author: ~delle
Subject: Re: A hero [Warning! very long]
In reply to: warren 's message, "A hero" on Saturday, January 28, 12:02:27am

I'm afraid you misunderstood my reason for posting this topic on this board. It was not my intention to make you defend your story or your characterization of Michael. There are as many interpretations of Michael as there are writers on the boards.

The purpose was to simply discuss various interpretations of "hero". And, most particularly, can either Michael or Nikita truly be considered a hero, as their actions were dictated by Section and not of their own free will?

A hero?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arland_D._Williams_Jr.
and
New York's firemen, police, and Port Authority.

We do have the same definition of what a hero is.

Plus, heroes, both in life and mythology/TV/etc are those that inspire and change lives.


Hm. I'm personally more inclined to use my standard Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition:

Hero: 1. A mythological or legendary figure
2. A man admired for his achievements and qualities
3. The chief male character in a story

I'm going to ignore definition 1, since it really doesn't apply. Definition 2? Hm. I don't know that I *admire* Michael for his achivements and/or qualities. Certainly he's achieved things in his life - his Level 5 status being his primary achievement. But *how* did he achieve it? Was it through heroic deeds? Which leads directly back to my question: can one be a hero for deeds done under orders or under duress?

And, frankly, definition 3? Doesn't fit, in my book. He's certainly the main *male* character - and one that many women (myself included) find attractive. But he's not the *central* character of the show - that role belongs to Nikita. It's through her eyes, through her experiences that we see the show. Michael is actually the 'romantic interest' - the role usually reserved for women characters in our male-driven society. Which is an interesting role reversal, huh?

What we do have is a different opinion of what the line 'less than nice' meant. A hero does not think when they do their heroic act. They don't think they are less than nice or better than anyone. They don't think, they act without thinking.

With all due respect, Warren? I simply can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to say here. And I simply can't agree that Michael - as a character - does things without thinking, without considering the consequences of his actions. It's part of what's made him the successful operative he is.

The saying 'nice guys finish lastEmeans exactly that. The nice guys 'seem'to do nothing even though they do their best. And they usually finish last. (The old clunker, "You're a nice guy, but...")(Women should never say that to a man. Say good or bad or no thanks, any other word, never 'nice')

I'm really unclear on how 'nice guys finish last' (which is a trite cliche and patently untrue, in my life experience) has any bearing on a discussion of what makes a hero.

(and, just so you know? I personally married my husband *because* he is a good, kind, nice man. There really *are* women in this world that want a nice guy in their lives. As much as I'm attracted to the *character* of Michael? Were I to meet him in RL, I'd run the other way. Because I don't have time/energy in my life to 'fix' a bad boy. Give me a MAN that can be my partner, thanks)

I'm cutting the next portion of your response as it really speaks only to your specific story and that wasn't my intention with this thread. I'd be more than happy to discuss your story and your characterizations if you want, but it wasn't my intention to slice and dice your story. I was looking for a more 'meta' discussion.

We all do see the characters differently don't we.

Is this because of age or gender or life experiences??

Whoa, boy, watch how you swing that e-penis around!

Seriously - I know you have a point, but the way it was phrased reads - to me at least - as *extremely* patronizing. I know you're male, and I know your age, because you made this point on SB1. Does your opinion of *my* opinion change if I tell you I'm not only female, but I'm close to you in age and have been actively involved in this fandom since 1998 and have been writing since 2000? Does that somehow make my opinion more valid, since I'm not a young, squeeing teenage girl?

As I said, you're certainly entitled to your characterization of Michael, or any other character in the show. There's no 'delle stamp of approval' here! And I'd gladly discuss my interpretation and how it may differ from yours if you wish. But that really wasn't the point of this discussion. I found Swatkat's and Jaybee's discussion of "heroic" versus "moral" to be fascinating and thought-provoking; did you?

And has anyone done something that others think of as 'heroic' but to you it was 'had to do it'? See Jaybee and Swatkat's discussion, above.

But I'd ask you: if you feel you 'have to do it', do you then think of yourself as a hero?

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