VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Friday, April 17, 01:52:38pm [ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, [2], 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 10:50:14am
Author: AS
Author Host/IP: d154-20-56-169.bchsia.telus.net / 154.20.56.169
Subject: Paralells.
In reply to: Lij 's message, "We saw Andrew Scott's Moriarty at the end." on Tuesday, February 04, 01:15:40am

I think I had mentioned to Chani it would be a good twist of the tale to make Janine the twin to Moriarty back after the Beeb aired the finale; she's clever enough to be, I think.

I think PBS kind of dumbed down the live actor reveal-it had more shock value after waiting through the thankfully short BBC end credits to see Andrew, rather than just showing him right away. I had no clue what was coming, so was running through a few scenarios in my head but didn't think to see him onscreen. Though in hindsight, was that for the fans and not really meant to be a live Moriarty??

Mycroft acts likes the eldest. I don't think the Holmes family has an ancestral home anymore that the eldest child would be hanging around to look after, at least the attached home they were celebrating Christmas in looked like the family domicile.

Sherlock kept his promise, he did what was right instead of what would have been easier, turning away and waiting for someone else to do what had to be done. (which was canon,right?) In the long run, he could not have sat around and watched John's life be complicated by Magnussen holding Mary's fate in his horrendous hands. I think I am more dismayed by Mycroft protecting the bastard than anything, though it's quite possible Magnussen was blackmailing him too.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> [> I don't know what you're saying, AS..... Oh... ok... see it now...... -- Lij, Tuesday, February 04, 08:34:01pm (adsl-99-31-13-212.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net/99.31.13.212)

You're saying this scenario dumbed it all down......

John says, "there's an east wind coming." Sherlock's jet lands.

Fade to black with the iconic Masterpiece Mystery Skull appearing and the music ending, for all of maybe 6 seconds.

And poof! Andrew Scott saying, "Miss me?"

They didn't run through any credits on PBS before cutting to Moriarity. But I don't think that was necessarily "dumbing it down." You expected that the show was completely over when you saw the Skull. That always signifies a change from the show's production to production by Masterpiece (Mystery) Theatre. So I was certainly surprised to see Moriarity pop up again.

A point about the Holmes house. It is not a row house. It has two end eaves each with a chimney as well as a central chimney (note the first view when Sherlock & Mycroft are outside smoking). It has a iron gate and stone fence. It has a stone entry. Opposite the house is not a street and other houses but open country (look at where the helicopter landed) and woods. So it well could be the modest home of a country squire.

Another point, Mother Holmes was a mathematician who gave her study up to have children. How then did Father Holmes support the family given that he was the sane but not as smart spouse? Perhaps he is the landlord of the surrounding lands. If so, then there is much to indicate that Squire Holmes still exists. But I myself do not ascribe to the idea of the elder brother convention.

I think that the tone Mycroft took when he said, "I'm not given to outbursts of brotherly compassion; we all know what happened to the other one," means that this other Holmes brother is dead or otherwise been put out of the picture (in a mental hospital, for instance). The implication being that Mycroft might be that cause or have played a part in that which put the other brother out of 'sight' - so to speak.

But despite the proof above that Father Holmes might still be a landed squire, I am not going to assume that this other brother is necessarily the elder. In fact for the reasons below, I think he may be younger than Sherlock or even of nearly the same age as Sherlock.

Cut to Sherlock and John talking before Sherlock begins his exile. Sherlock recounts the story of the East Wind, it is a story which was told to Sherlock by Mycroft when Sherlock was young. Obviously, this story has something to do with some 'difficulty' extant in the Holmes household at the time. Is it perhaps Sherlock's only memory concerning the story surrounding this "other brother?" I am going to assume that it is.

So who is this other brother? Well, next comes Moriarity's takeover and "Miss me?" And how does John describe Moriarty's return, but as the "East Wind." Right now, and until we find out differently, I am convinced therefore that James Moriarty is the lost Holmes brother. But how?

I am going to guess that Moriarty is about 6-10 years younger than Sherlock and that he is the illegitimate son of Squire Holmes and another woman - a woman named Moriarty. So putting down Moriarty (as Mycroft thinks has been done) in no way showed any inkling of 'brotherly-compassion' from Mycroft. Further, Moriarty's obsession with Sherlock is likely an expression of his madness from being set apart from the Holmes family as a child. His mother likely told him tales about his father, his brothers, he grew up following Mycroft and Sherlock, his obsession grew to be one of exacting a revenge upon his brother(s). Now, could Moriarty have another sibling, yes, Jeanine could be his sister. Either a twin or from a different father.

James Moriarty is the Holmes Family East Wind.

...


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> [> Hmmm. -- AS, Tuesday, February 04, 10:54:55pm (d154-20-56-169.bchsia.telus.net/154.20.56.169)

Come to think of it, Mycroft's place seems pretty posh. Perhaps that is the family manor?? The place where they spent Christmas is more like a converted farmhouse to me, at least based on the many Brit house-hunting shows I have watched over the years. Perhaps they moved there and left the old pile to Mycroft since it was convenient to London??

I like your Moriarty theory a lot, though in hindsight the concept of Janine being his twin could be a little ick inducing when you think about Sherlock dating her in the finale. Heh!


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> [> [> Could be Mycroft is in the manor house...... -- Lij, Wednesday, February 05, 03:04:25am (adsl-99-31-13-212.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net/99.31.13.212)

We will probably never know. Though I tend to feel that Mycrofts home is a more modern. Like I said not all squires' homes need be so elaborate, and many a landholder has stepped down their homes because of the upkeep.

The way they talked on Sherlock Uncovered, Cumberbatch's parents won't be playing Sherlock's parents in the next season. I do wonder, however, if I am correct if the family home might turn out to be the setting for a pivotal scene between Sherlock and Moriarty. Somehow to visit the indescretion of Sherlock's father.

Then again, could the indescretion have been Sherlock's mother? Could she have given away the child who became Moriarty because it was not a Holmes? She is the hot one. Something in me hopes I am wrong about Moriarty being a half-brother to Sherlock and Mycroft. It's too simple an answer, almost too easy. So I am hoping they have a more involved twist to spring on us.

I think I've watched that climactic scene on the terrace about 25 times now just to hear the music. Ennio Morricone created quite a style and I am happy to see it emulated.

...


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> [> I'm being stubborn -- Chani, Wednesday, February 05, 04:57:27am (89-156-8-80.rev.numericable.fr/89.156.8.80)

But I really dislike the Moriarty as a Holmes, if only because it seems too on the nose and fanfic-like, and I expect better twist from Moffat.

I think that the tone Mycroft took when he said, "I'm not given to outbursts of brotherly compassion; we all know what happened to the other one," means that this other Holmes brother is dead or otherwise been put out of the picture (in a mental hospital, for instance). The implication being that Mycroft might be that cause or have played a part in that which put the other brother out of 'sight' - so to speak.

I agree but "the other one" doesn't necessarily mean another brother. Mycroft would still be that sibling's brother, even if it were a girl, so his phrase "outbursts of brotherly compassion" works if the third Holmes kid was a woman.

It's like when Yoda said "No there is another one", meaning Leia of course!

Yes The Empire Strikes Back was on French tv yesterday....


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> [> [> I too agree that .... -- Lij, Wednesday, February 05, 08:47:33pm (adsl-99-31-13-212.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net/99.31.13.212)

......that the idea that Moriarty is another Holmes possibly via the father or mother (the 'hot' one) is rather too easy an explanation. As I said above, I hope that they have a more intriguing reveal for us.

Perhaps I am being 'sexist' concerning the possible 3rd Holmes. My point, however, is if I am (wrong about the gender) then what future roll could this other Holmes play? She would have to be, if not in fact male and Moriarty, another psychopath, much worse that Sherlock (who I don't see as a psychopath - even if 'high-functioning'). Something had to have happened to this person.

We can speculate 'till the cows come home, but the producers and writers of Sherlock have it all in their hands.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Here is what Moffat says about Sherlock -- Chani, Thursday, February 06, 04:41:26am (89-156-8-80.rev.numericable.fr/89.156.8.80)

It's from an interview on vulture.com about Sherlock's best man speech:

As Moffat puts it, that’s merely Sherlock “bullshitting.” “He always is. He doesn’t think that at all. He doesn’t think any of those things, but he wants to think that he does, just as he wants to think he’s a high-functioning sociopath,” says Moffat. “He’s not a sociopath, nor is he high-functioning. He’d really like to be a sociopath. But he’s so fucking not. The wonderful drama of Sherlock Holmes is that he’s aspiring to this extraordinary standard. He is at root an absolutely ordinary man with a very, very big brain. He’s repressed his emotions, his passions, his desires, in order to make his brain work better — in itself, a very emotional decision, and it does suggest that he must be very emotional if he thinks emotions get in the way. I just think Sherlock Holmes must be bursting!”

As for "the other one", yes something happened to that person and they all know it in Mycroft's circle, so it must be related to a State issue.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Yes! And I agree with your criticism on LJ ;-) -- Lij, Thursday, February 06, 07:14:27am (adsl-99-186-236-105.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net/99.186.236.105)


[ Edit | View ]


[ Contact Forum Admin ]

Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.