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Friday, April 17, 12:38:09pmLogin ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 123[4]5678910 ]


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Date Posted: Thursday, December 13, 01:08:08pm
Author: Lij
Author Host/IP: adsl-99-42-49-41.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net / 99.42.49.41
Subject: For completeness...
In reply to: Lij 's message, "Chani.... may I ask a favor?" on Thursday, December 13, 12:05:17pm

GeneaNet entry for Camille Englebert:

http://gw1.geneanet.org/gounou?lang=en&p=camille&n=englebert

Netradyle birth entry:

http://www.netradyle.be/actes/tab_naiss.php?args=Glimes,ENGLEBERT&xord=N

http://www.netradyle.be/actes/acte_naiss.php?xid=771162&xct=5328

.. .. ..

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Replies:

[> Here is what I have.... -- Lij, Friday, December 14, 03:18:31am (adsl-108-67-92-187.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net/108.67.92.187)

Page 1
------------
............ Anvers (Antwerp) 12 August 1853

Englebert, Camille
Steyn Parve', D. C.

Monsieur le Bourgemeistre...

I have the honor(?) to inform you that today this evening about the 9th hour 2 persons ???? arrived from Rotterdam arrived without papers ????? and came before me. Know that:

No 1: The Sir Camille Englebert, age of 30 years, ? of Glimes, Brabant, Doctor of Rights/Laws, ??? (living) at Glimes. He declares that last Sunday he left Brussels ??? with a letter of administration of the Surite (Police) ??? signed?? by a judge?? ??? Smit de Borya???????? to research (or to search for) his (Englebert's or the judge's??) cousin, Auguste Dumont.

Interest of the leaf of foreigners 12 August 1853

No 2: The Sir D. C. Steyn Parve', age of 41 years, born at Lahaye, commissionaire....

A la Bourgemeister Anvers

Page 2
----------

.... of the Low Country Indies Netherlands (ie Java etc.). Going to Brussels at Monsieur le Comte De Bylandt Chambellan (chamberlain?) of the King (??) ????? at Madam his mother, Rue de L'Observation no. 6.

The first (meaning Camille Englebert?) has come (is staying?) for/at the Sir Erffhardt(?) Cabaretier(Innkeeper?) at the Cross C??? on port and the other is a lodger staying at the Hotel du Rhin.

Agreez? ???? for the Bourgmeistre the appearance of one part(??) C???

Flowery signature follows...

How did I do?

...


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[> [> You did rather well ! -- Chani, Friday, December 28, 06:53:44am (87-231-7-227.rev.numericable.fr/87.231.7.227)

But here is my translation with explanations and comments are in bold. I'm afraid that I am not very good at deciphering the names/surnames for I am not used tot he context...

Monsieur le Bourgmestre...

It have the honour of informing you that yesterday, in the evening, at about about 9 O'clock, the 2 persons, further named, arrived from Rotterdam without papers (it means they were illegal immigrants) and were taken before me. Namely:

No 1: Mr. Camille Englebert, age of 30 years, born at Glimes, Brabant, Doctor of Laws, address Glimes. He told me that last Sunday he left Brussels ( here there is a grammar issue: the translation should be "leaving Brussels..." and then there should be a main verb after that but it's missing, so I follow your translation and turn the "leaving" into "left" in order to the sentence to make sense, bearing a letter from l'Administration de la Sureté Publique (yes the Police civil service was called Sûreté, which means security, back then) for magistrate Louis de Berg en (here I just can't read the name, but it's obviously the name of a location given the rest of the phrase) where he was heading, in search of/looking for his cousin, Auguste Dumont (I understand that Auguste was Camille's cousin and the magistrate, to whom the letter was intended, would have helped Camille to find him).

(here there is spelling error, hence your mistake!) onto the leaf of foreigners 12 August 1853.>

No 2: Mr. D. C. Steyn Parvie, age of 41 years, born at Lahaye, government commissioner....

A Monsieur le Bourgmestre d' Anvers

Page 2
----------

.... of the Low Country for the Dutch Indies. Going to Brussels to the house of Monsieur le Comte De Bylandt, Chambellan du Roi (not sure that the translation means anything in English but yes it's King's chamberlain), staying with Madam his mother, Rue de L'Observation no. 6.

The former (I guess he meant Camille Englebert)
was known by Mr. Erffhardt(?), who is Cabaretier at La Croix Blanche au port (?), so he went to stay there, and the latter went to stay at the Hotel du Rhin.

Agréer Monsieur le Bourgmestre l'assurance de ma...(I am not sure of what is written past "ma" because it's abbreviated – although it could be "ma très haute considération"– but the whole thing is just a polite phrase used at the end of letters before the signature, and that could be translated into as "Yours faithfully")


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[> [> [> Oh shit, I screwed up the html code for bold at the end! -- Chani, Friday, December 28, 06:54:39am (87-231-7-227.rev.numericable.fr/87.231.7.227)


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[> [> [> Damnit! -- Chani, Friday, December 28, 06:59:16am (87-231-7-227.rev.numericable.fr/87.231.7.227)

The word was eaten by the voy monster!

For the , it should read:

INSERTED(here there is spelling error, hence your mistake!) onto the leaf of foreigners 12 August 1853.>


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[> [> [> OK Last try! -- Chani, Friday, December 28, 07:03:01am (87-231-7-227.rev.numericable.fr/87.231.7.227)

Monsieur le Bourgmestre...

It have the honour of informing you that yesterday, in the evening, at about about 9 O'clock, the 2 persons, further named, arrived from Rotterdam without papers (it means they were illegal immigrants) and were taken before me. Namely:

No 1: Mr. Camille Englebert, age of 30 years, born at Glimes, Brabant, Doctor of Laws, address Glimes. He told me that last Sunday he left Brussels ( here there is a grammar issue: the translation should be "leaving Brussels..." and then there should be a main verb after that but it's missing, so I follow your translation and turn the "leaving" into "left" in order to the sentence to make sense), bearing a letter from l'Administration de la Sureté Publique (yes the Police civil service was called Sûreté, which means security, back then) for magistrate Louis de Berg en (here I just can't read the name, but it's obviously the name of a location given the rest of the phrase) where he was heading, in search of/looking for his cousin, Auguste Dumont (I understand that Auguste was Camille's cousin and the magistrate, to whom the letter was intended, would have helped Camille to find him).

Inserted (here there is spelling error, hence your mistake!) onto the leaf of foreigners 12 August 1853.

No 2: Mr. D. C. Steyn Parvie, age of 41 years, born at Lahaye, government commissioner....

A Monsieur le Bourgmestre d' Anvers

Page 2
----------

.... of the Low Country for the Dutch Indies. Going to Brussels to the house of Monsieur le Comte De Bylandt, Chambellan du Roi (not sure that the translation means anything in English but yes it's King's chamberlain), staying with Madam his mother, Rue de L'Observation no. 6.

The former (I guess he meant Camille Englebert) was known by Mr. Erffhardt(?), who is Cabaretier at La Croix Blanche au port (?), so he went to stay there, and the latter went to stay at the Hotel du Rhin.

Agréer Monsieur le Bourgmestre l'assurance de ma...(I am not sure of what is written past "ma" because it's abbreviated – although it could be "ma très haute considération"– but the whole thing is just a polite phrase used at the end of letters before the signature, and that could be translated into as "Yours faithfully").


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[> [> [> Thank you very much. I think this Camille Englebert is known to us in Indiana as Camille de Buisseret. -- Lij, Friday, December 28, 02:40:40pm (adsl-108-67-94-15.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net/108.67.94.15)

The names are similar....

En Belgique: Camille August Oswald ENGLEBERT

In the USA: Camille Eugene R. Oswald Englebert de BUISSERET

His signature in the USA on legal documents was: Eugene R de BUISSERET

It seems he changed his second name and added the "de BUISSERET"

I think the fraud case below may be the reason and he was hiding.


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