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Date Posted: Saturday, October 15, 08:45:44am
Author: Chani
Author Host/IP: 81-65-192-252.rev.numericable.fr / 81.65.192.252
Subject: Re: FRINGE - Subject 9
In reply to: Lij 's message, "FRINGE - Subject 9" on Saturday, October 15, 01:32:28am

It had a few good moments thanks to John Noble and the guy who played Cameron, but I was annoyed by all the obvious explanations about the new verse (I wish they would give us the info in a more subtle way)and, above all, how predictable it was. From the first scene on, everybody and their uncle could guess that the bowl of blue energy was Peter returning.

BTW it was a big nod to Terminator (hence the name of Cameron James, I guess)!!!!

And I'm pretty sure that they played "wink at" with the cop's name, given that Lieutenant Daniels was the character that Lance Reddick played in The Wire.

And since Walter was like a Father figure to the kids he experimented on, nice touch about what Cameron told Olivia "make him forget me".


But I really like it better when FRINGE does standalones, especially over there.

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[> I think you are missing the mysteries of FRINGE which we once saw in Buffy -- Lij, Saturday, October 15, 10:33:11pm (adsl-99-50-225-105.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net/99.50.225.105)

Originally Posted by The Question
....and what Broyles says to Olivia at the end of the episode in response to her worry that without those memories he'll become a killer.

“At the risk of sounding sentimental, I always thought there were people who leave an indelible mark on your soul, An imprint that can never be erased.”

Coupled with the Soul Magnets fiasco I think we can reasonably assume that when a character talks about a soul, they aren't just being religious.

I think they remember Peter and everything that happened before somewhere deep down. That's why went looking for them, and Olivia "just had a feeling" that the Blue Energy wasn't trying to hurt them and that it wanted their help. And given Olivia's dormant cortexiphan abilities and the manner of Peter's return, coupled with the strong bond they've always had. Olivia is probably going to be crucial in this process, or may become the only person who Can remember.

Or for that matter, perhaps the only person willing to open their mind enough to be Able to access those lost memories. Because it seems to me like they aren't going to trust this random man with this insane story. And when his explanation involves The Machine, it might even be taken out of the hands of people who knew him before. I wouldn't be surprised if they Patriot Acted his butt into solitary confinement after debriefing him.

P.S.:: Once Peter realizes what has happened, you think his fling with Bolivia is gonna be among the things he tells Olivia (or anyone)? Or is he gonna cross his fingers, hope she never finds out and pretend it never happened?


Exactly. I should have mentioned Broyles' statement. Broyles' statement leads one to believe that while a person forgets someone who changed your life's outlook, you should still have that outlook in your life. This might be why without Peter, Walter is still controllable by Olivia. And it could even be a factor in his newfound desire to go out in the field in this episode.

How so then is it when that fogotten person comes back into your life. The first thought might be one of comfort with the person. But it's difficult to see comfort in the experiences of Walter in the first 3 episodes. However, Walter in his neurotic state would not be comforted by a 'vision' which threatens to send him from a manageable neurosis into a psychosis. Walter's mind was just not ready for Peter. But Olivia most evidently is.

I think that Olivia will be the one who is most disconcerted by Peter's return. She will have feelings for him which she cannot understand because they have no basis to her logical, detective-based FBI mind. The evidence is within her, but I feel that this Olivia does trust herself somewhat more than herself in the paradox. That too might be Peter's gift to her.

I think it will play out somewhat in a tiered fashion with Olivia being most 'sensitive,' then Walter, and finally Astrid, who I would use to represent those more casual relationships to Peter. There may be four, maybe five tiers of understanding for them concerning Peter, call them familiarity, faith, trust, and recognition. The first I see as familiarity, and I think Olivia has already exhibited that aspect. She has had dreams of Peter and has sketched him. It was necessary that she find some aspect of that visage as familiar in order that she progress to the next aspect, faith.

And it is faith that Olivia expresses at the end of this episode even as Walter is yelling for Cameron to destroy the E-M field. Olivia has faith not only in her own feeling toward this visage of Peter but in the visage itself. But even faith cannot lead to absolute trust and it is left to Peter to gain that trust by his actions. But once trust is established recognition may not be far behind. And yes, I too see that it is Olivia who comes to each stage first, and so too it is Olivia who helps guide Walter and the 'Astrids' towards their recognition of Peter. Walter by all rights should come around first, then Astrid, Broyles, etc...

And there may be a fifth step which is memory recovery. But I do not see that occurring with just anyone, I think Olivia is the primary one and Walter, secondarily. I cannot see that all memories of happenstances are recovered but more memories of feelings, of their love for each other, of the love between father and son. Nothing else is important for the characters, and it leaves Peter with knowledge of paradoxical events which still puts him in the center of the action on FRINGE.


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[> [> The mystery was not what got me into FRINGE -- Chani, Sunday, October 16, 05:19:04am (81-65-192-252.rev.numericable.fr/81.65.192.252)

I was there for the characters, and above all for the father/son relationship.

Also I didn't like the Olivia/Peter thing last year, so I'm wary of anything using it as a key element in the mystery.

I have watched many brillantly written tv shows in the last 7 years, so I have become very hard to please, I guess, and FRINGE has always been extremely uneven in terms of writing. A few episodes are brillant but that's it. I don't think this "Subject 9" was brillant at all, regardless of "the mystery".

Also, I'm intrigued by The Observers but since LOST, I learnt my lesson and try not to be too involved in mystery...

So yes, I enjoy FRINGE but I notice that the episodes that I love the most are usually stand alone episodes.


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