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05/11/24 00:52:26 [ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, [4] ]

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Date Posted: 00:36:01 04/16/03 Wed
Author: The Cannabist
Subject: my 2 cents
In reply to: compose 's message, "Dune Encyclopedia - what's canon?" on 00:34:41 04/16/03 Wed

let me answer your comments...

#1
**this just sounds silly to me. by what right does brian herbert claim that he and kevin anderson are the only ones who can continue to write the canon? just because brian is his son? i agree that he probably knows his pops better than any other writer, but mcnelly was no slouch**:

Brian has the right because
a) He grew up at his father's knee hearing all the stories, ideas, tales, and PLANS for DUNE
b) His own father wanted to write further DUNE books with him, but never got the chance due to dying and all
c) He was a writer in his own right before tackling DUNE
d) He has the legal right as well.

#2
**mcnelly wasn't just some dude who walked in off of the street and compiled all this info about dune. if he wasn't an insider than i don't know who is. also, it said that frank said it didn't "necessarily" represent the canon. this is neither a rejection nor an acceptance of it.**

He wasn't an insider, he was a friend and a fan, and created this as a homage to Frank. He didn't get access to Franks notes, plans or ideas.

#3
**if brian herbert was a great author, or not even that, if brian herbert was anything above a marginally talented author, then maybe i could give him more leeway. but as it stands right now, he's just related to frank herbert and riding on his coattails. just sharing herbert dna doesn't give him the right to say that he has the monopoly on dune canon. (i realize the irony of this because by law he and anderson actually do have a monopoly on dune canon, i'm speaking idealistically here.) **

What gives him the right is the same as #1, who better knows what Frank meant to do then the man who grew up watching and learning, and the one who got ALL Franks notes for DUNE including past and future (dune 7)

#4
**and who is the Herbert Limited Partnership? well...brian herbert of course. so brian herbert is essentially saying that he gives himself permission to write whatever the hell he wants and that makes it canon.**

the Herbert Limited Partnership is the group designated to watch over DUNE to ensure copywrite is not violated, and that Franks dream is not bastardized. WHO they are? Ask at the site, but I think it's Franks remaining Family and a couple others. I do know it's NOT just brian.

#5**
well of course frank didn't refer to it because "heretics of dune" and "chapterhouse: dune" didn't really have anything to do with anything that was in the encyclopedia. the encyclopedia dealt with small details and the interesting anecdotes that went along with the first four books, there was no need to refer back to it's small details and interesting anectodes and histories of certain characters when the last two books took place another 10,000 years or so after GEoD.**

But the fact is that Dr. McNelly MADE THIS SHIT UP !! :-) he did not ask Frank, he did not use Franks notes, and when the book was released Frank himself said do NOT take this as MY universe. I was 18 at the time I remember it clearly.

#6
**this is based solely on my opinion, but i have a sneaky suspicion that brian herbert and kevin anderson just found it a lot easier to write in the whole ixian plot and leto's other son etc... and declare the encylopedia "non-canon" rather than examining the enclyopedia and making the prequels match up to them. again, if the writing and ideas in the prequels were remarkable or really imaginative, i might not feel this way, but i felt the story lines and character development of the prequels pales in comparison to the creativity and complexity found in the encyclopedia.**

This maybe true, Frank never once refers to Ixians being so close to Atreides, or a first born, or many other things. BUT some things he didn't reveal Until the 5th or 6th book. How do we know what Frank would have done since he died?

Maybe he did plan to write these things afterwards, maybe he had no idea of his own mortality and figured he had 20 good years left to write. We will never know. But I do firmly believe that names, places, and other things ARE franks notes. I do think he made them that comprehensive, like the traitor harkonnen at the battle of Corrin. Although it's refered to in the final books he doesn't give names or anything. But I'll BET my life that he had names in his notes. THOSE are the facts that Brian would use in his books.

the stories Brian tells in House Atreides, some of them HAVE to be Franks because Frank alludes to them in his books. The Red Duke, his favour in the Landsraad, all things that any good author would document as character building.

#7
**i wouldn't be a bit surprised if mcnelly signed this letter simply out of respect for his old friend and coworker, brian herbert's dad.**

that is simply not true, from day one DUNE encyclopedia was meant as an ""interesting"" read, but was NOT to be refered to as a source for DUNE...

so in closing... how can you be loyal to a man who was...
a) recognised as friend but discredited by FH from day 1.
and
b) stated as fact that his book was not part of Franks World. would you have signed that letter in his shoes? I wouldn't if I believed my work was endorsed by FH.

Jay

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Replies:

touche' -- compose', 00:54:06 04/16/03 Wed
- I do concede that Brian cannot weave as well as Frank -- The Cannabist, 00:59:11 04/16/03 Wed
  - from the preface to the encyclopedia -- compose', 02:07:52 04/16/03 Wed