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Date Posted: 22:05:33 10/22/05 Sat
Author: ING
Subject: Re: explicitly stated mythology of the soul
In reply to: manwitch 's message, "explicitly stated mythology of the soul" on 09:55:22 10/18/05 Tue

I think the problem is in the terminolgy. since the Buffy demons seem to be more of the Greek idea of Deamon (Spirit) there's the implication that they're not human but not necessarily evil. In the Greek system you can easily have your good demons, your bad ones, or your neutral ones. So some of the demons might just be Deamons, while others are apparently evil and are true devils. another problem is in the nature of the demon. it's established that there really aren't any True Demons on Earth. True Demons are basicly Lovecraftian Gods, and are truely evil and souless. the closest you can come to on Earth are pure demons which just means they're ethnily pure (the Scourge), probably meaning their breed just procreates with itself rather than other breeds or humans. If you take the Lovecraftian mythos further to heart you get the explanation that modern ecology came from the junk DNA left over from the Old Ones, which couuld explain how we get some of the 'lesser' demons, (ie non True Demons, CLem, Lorne, etc). however, we have also scene that Demons apparently exist in natural states in other realms, some even consider these realms their native home (Lorne). so what does this mean? for one it could mean that Realms like Pylea are like Earth, and are just inhabited by a diffrent but paralel ecology. another is that all life is like in Lovecraft created by the Old Ones, intentionally or otherwise. However, it might be likely that the DNA of the Old Ones contaminated the native genetic material of any realms (or vice versa). Here you get an explanation that demons have souls depending on how distantly related they are to their ancestors. Pure Demons are more likely to be evil since their genes are pure, halfbreeds and near-humanoids like Clem are probably more closly contaminated with Mortal genes. Since vampires were created by a direct spawning from a True Demon they are direct descendants, making them while still contaminated by human nature, much closer behavioral wise to their parents. But this still dosn't explain souls or the nature of evil. well take the assumption that having a soul means being able to feel empathy, the ability to feal for or care for another being. Now many demons have that, some have what appear to be it but might just be ethic hedonism (example, Spike's kinder moments were towards beings that could provide something for him, mainly sexual gratification, either direcly in the case of Buffy and Dru, or indirrectly in the case of Dawn and Joyce (earning favor with them earns favor with Buffy)), The Master for example also has 'good' traits, mainly very parental love for his followers. However, this could be dismissed as a selfish ethic (he is dependent on followers, and needs them to feed and provide for them. esscentually he is attached to them, and needs them to feel the same attachment towards him, if they didn't they would abandon him and let him starve...not a fun prospect), or as genetic selfishness (they are his descendants so on the most primal level they will be all that is left of him should he be slain). Angelous, on the other hand gives us a clear image of pure evil. Nothing he does is for others, all of his relations are selfish (Darla provides protection/training and sex, Dru provides Sex, Spike provides amusement and needed male companionship). He for some reason is more demonic than most pure demons, (possibly more so than the master). Maybe this is because the human Liam was all to willing to give up the pains and dilemas that came with being human, so he put up less of a resistence to letting the demon take over. Another example of this evil is Ilyria, her motives are equally as selfish. at first her interactions are completly dependent on who will help her in her war, when this is impossible she seeks out those who will protect her. she forms a very child like attachment to him (to the point of even reluctently accepting some of his morality) showing perhaps how even demons can have souls. in the end we can assume that the True Demons are utterly selfish, unable to love or care for anything. they know nother but pride, similar to Jasmine, and all actions are for their glorification and consoleration of power. where does the soul come from though? is it a trait in mortal genetics? is it the spirit of rebellion, the desire to seek a greater reality than the empty nilhistic one of the Old Ones? Does it come from God? i think that this is intentionaly left as the unknown in the series. Maybe the soul is the astral counterpart to some living or nonliving being... therefore having a soul is a moot point, the idea would be whether it has a human soul or not. Maybe there is no souls but one soul, a connection to a higher power, God whatever. a soul is gained from interaction with other beings, connecting together like cells of an organism. this kinda falls in with the family theme of the shows. and it also makes some sense. Demons that interact more with humans or other souled beings are more likely to be good or take on good traits themself. the true demons or compelatly evil ones like Angelous are unable to connect to other beings in such a way, they have no equal, no friends...they are souless. Think of Buffy's description of her Heaven...does this fall in with this OVersoul idea. eitherway it's a moot point, it's the unknown, it can't be explained...even in fiction.

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