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Date Posted: Sun, Jun 17, 09:56:19pm CST
Author: Dan McD
Author Host/IP: bal-dr-cas-cisc2-23.dial.airstreamcomm.net / 64.33.181.25
Subject: Re: natural tree dogs?
In reply to: Doogie 's message, "Re: natural tree dogs?" on Sun, Jun 17, 08:56:49pm CST

>IMO I dont think there is a "natural" coon, bear, cat,
>hog, or gray fox strain of dog. You need to expose the
>dog to what you want it to hunt, and break them off
>less desired game. I want my dog to hunt anything
>other than ungalets and possums, so I can go hunt Bear
>and Gray Fox in CA with R. Oller and N. Seward, Coon
>in IA with D. Minten, Bobcat in WI with D. McDonough
>or Hogs with my friends in the south. Now different
>strains of Leopards are bred to soot those different
>people and the conditions they hunt in. Mr. Ollers
>bear and gray fox dogs are bred to hunt bear and gray
>fox, and D. McDonough and D. Mintens dogs are bred to
>hunt coon and cats. Who knows there might be guys in
>GA and FL that breed Leopards that are broke on every
>thing expet deer. I do belive you can take one strain
>of Leopards from one part of the country and use it to
>hunt in another part of the country. It only took 6
>nights for a dog that had never smelled a coon let
>alone seen a coon, and only been hunted on cats, run
>track to tree by himself. I bet I could take the same
>dog and go bear hunting and in two or three races, go
>from what are we doing boss to being right there with
>the rest of the pack under a tree. Some might disagree
>with me but as long as I see game in a tree or bayed
>on the ground its been a good day be it coon, cat,
>bear, fox or hog as long as its not something its been
>broke off of.

Mike, I would say that I have seen a tendecey in most of the leopards that I have raised. Not all, but most of them seem to prefer felines to all other game. There is however one more exception to what I have said there. I am not a bear hunter and my dogs have not been exposed to them much. I live in bear country but have not had more than one bear race that I know of around here. I have run my dogs on bobcats, ferrel cats, coon and gray fox. I can tell you for certain, my dogs just seem to tree harder and sound generally more excited when they are running cats. As for natural tree dogs...I believe that most leopard curs are just that. Like Dan N. says though, if they are not, just cull them and move on. You mentioned something about Wick's opinions on breeding stock. Well, I particularly liked what he had wrote in one of his books about not breaking or doing a lot of "off" training (my wording)on something you are considering for breeding stock. I have only one dog that I have done this with (Dottie out of Jug x Shultz's Susie). She was shown what to run when she was young but never shocked off of trash of any kind. She will tree coon and cats but will take a cat over a coon and not deviate from a cat to chase a coon. This is of her own valition. She has run deer, and fox to my knowlege and I don't think she has ever run a coyote or bear. She has not run trash of any sort for years that I know of. All of that experimenting (on her part) took place when she was under 1 1/2 years old. I kind of like her (very understated). On most of my dogs I use the basket on a hot fence method of J.W.'s when they are young and I am rather strick with them about listening to what I say to do from the time they can understand what I want to teach them. I'm no task master but my dogs do listen well. I would certainly say that I have natural tree dogs with a small few exceptions however, I do often get dogs that can eye-ball a critter in a tree like a top squirrel dog would. Dottie seems to have this ability more than any other dog I own to date. Her sister Rachel is right behind her. I think that is a big part of what makes them able to do what they do on cats. For those of you that do not hunt cats, they have a tendencey to make the first contact with a tree starting at about 5-7 feet in the air if they hit that tree on the run. They don't leave a lot of scent on the trunk and definately not where the dog get get to it with the tip of their nose. It helps greatly to have a type of dog that can wind very well and use it's eyes and ears equaly well. It's the difference between a 20 min closing and 2+ hour closing (if at all) after a cat is jumped. Those are rough numbers but you all get the idea. Anyway...I got little off topic. My real point is that Joe Average can go out and get a natural tree dog out of just about any leopard cur kennel. At least within a few tries unless by odd circumstance you accidentally pick a cull every time. In that case I would just let my kids pick them. That way even if it didn't work out I still get to be the hero. Take care, Dan McD.

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