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Date Posted: Fri, Jul 06, 11:43:39am CST
Author: david
Author Host/IP: ip66.lacrosse.lib.wi.us / 204.145.232.66
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame Question
In reply to: Fred Moyer 's message, "Re: Hall of Fame Question" on Wed, Jul 04, 01:00:42pm CST

>>>>>>>>>>>Oh no, here we go again! Maybe there should
>be
>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>>sticky note at the top of the main forum page
>>>>>>>>stating
>>>>>>>>>>>that if you do not hold an official position
>>>>with
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>ALCBA Inc. or do not have anything positive
>to
>>>>>say
>>>>>>>>>>>about said association, please do not post
>>>>>>>>>>>here.(sarcasm)
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe that good and positive results
>can
>>>>>>come
>>>>>>>>>>>from constructive critisism and negative
>>>>>>statements
>>>>>>>>>>>and a person doesn't neccessarily have to
>have
>>>>>all
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>answers.
>>>>>>>>>>> I may not know how to fix my computer, but
>>if
>>>>I
>>>>>>>>>>>don't acknowledge that something is wrong AND
>>>>>tell
>>>>>>>>>>>someone who may have the skills to fix it,
>the
>>>>>>>>status
>>>>>>>>>>>quo result will be that I never get the darn
>>>>>thing
>>>>>>>>>>>repaired!
>>>>>>>>>>> Perry, you did a good job of clearing up a
>>>few
>>>>>>>>>>>questions I had regarding David's post but I
>>>>>think
>>>>>>>>he
>>>>>>>>>>>made an excellent point about the way voting
>>>was
>>>>>>>>>>>handled when he was present at that meeting
>>>some
>>>>>>>>time
>>>>>>>>>>>back.
>>>>>>>>>>> Is the voting still handled that way and
>>what
>>>>>>>>would
>>>>>>>>>>>be the problem with a secret ballot to keep
>>>peer
>>>>>>>>>>>pressure to a minimum? I sure don't have all
>>>(or
>>>>>>>>any)
>>>>>>>>>>>of the answers but I enjoy the discussion.
>;o)
>>>>>>>>>>Any member is free to nominate any dog. As for
>>>>>>>secret
>>>>>>>>>>ballott. I have no problem with that. We need
>>>>>>>workers
>>>>>>>>>>to get this done. Personally I think a
>seperate
>>>>>>>>person
>>>>>>>>>>should be set up to oversee the process. Do I
>>>>have
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>volunteer to write up a process and get it
>>>>>>>presented?
>>>>>>>>>>Jason you seem like a reasonable and genuine
>>>>>>>>concerned
>>>>>>>>>>leopard fancier. Why not get a propasal
>drafted
>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>we
>>>>>>>>>>can get some of the officer and BOD to give it
>>a
>>>>>>>look
>>>>>>>>>>see and get some opinions. Maybe we could get
>>>>this
>>>>>>>>>>ready for the hunt this year and use the
>>process
>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>>the future. It may take a few test runs to get
>>>it
>>>>>>>>>>tweeked?? My e-mail is attached. I don't mean
>>to
>>>>>>put
>>>>>>>>>>you on the spot but we need workers. I hope to
>>>>>hear
>>>>>>>>>>from you. My phone # is in the year book. ANY
>>>>>>member
>>>>>>>>>>is welcome to call me. Thanks Perry
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Perry,I'll help however I can.I'm leaving for
>>>>>>Myrtle
>>>>>>>>>Beach in the morning when I get back I'll get
>in
>>>>>>>touch
>>>>>>>>>with you.Jason
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Perry, I think you came down on David a little
>>>>>hard.
>>>>>>>>David would like to see this organization take
>>off
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>be the best it can be as much as anyone. There
>>>are
>>>>>>>>many, many things that can be improved upon in
>>any
>>>>>>>>organization and this one is no different.
>David
>>>>is
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>very clear thinker and even if you don't like
>>what
>>>>>he
>>>>>>>>says sometimes I will forever stand behind the
>>>fact
>>>>>>>>that he is certainly worth hearing and the
>things
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>he says are definatley worth concideration. I
>do
>>>>>>>>understand that if any one out there gets to
>>catch
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>crap more often than he should, it would be
>>>>>you...but
>>>>>>>>you are the president and that does go with the
>>>>>>>>territory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>As for the statemtment itself, I think that the
>>>>>short
>>>>>>>>version would go something like this. Respect
>>>>>equals
>>>>>>>>success. Any time we can field some good old
>>>>>>fasioned
>>>>>>>>critisism and make something good out of it,
>>>that's
>>>>>>>>just what we should do. That does however mean
>>>>that
>>>>>>>>the status quo needs to be shifted from time to
>>>>>time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Certainly a list of requirements would be a good
>>>>>>thing
>>>>>>>>when it comes to HOF nominations but
>generalizing
>>>>>>>>those requirements would be neccisary and would
>>>>>leave
>>>>>>>>the judgments open to subjective scrutiny as it
>>>>>>should
>>>>>>>>be. I think it is a good idea. A vote could be
>>>>>>>>attached to an anual or bi-anual news letter.
>>>That
>>>>>>>>would be relatively simple...just an idea.
>ALso,
>>>>if
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>newsletter does not ever surface, it could be
>>>added
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>the yearbook and voted on for the previous
>year.
>>>>>Any
>>>>>>>>one alse have any more ideas? I have one more,
>>>>>there
>>>>>>>>could be categories. I don't know how that
>would
>>>>>>work
>>>>>>>>but it may be a concideration for an awards
>>>>>program.
>>>>>>>>The Plott associations seem to have gotten most
>>of
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>kinks worked out with this type of thing. Is
>>>there
>>>>>>>>anyone here that also belings to one of the
>Plott
>>>>>>>>assoc.'s that could offer some advice?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Dan. I did not think Perry came down too hard.
>>>>>>>I started to write, more than once.
>>>>>>>It would not have been polite at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am insulted by the whole smear. I was there.
>>>>>>>I met David when he got out of the truck.
>>>>>>>We had several conversations that weekend.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>David had made a marathon trip from Minn. to N.
>>>>>>>Carolina, to Indiana. He was white as a sheet.
>>>Lack
>>>>>>>of sleep. We talked several times at the hunt.
>>>>>>>Enjoyed visiting with him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Where all this garbage comes from, I cannot
>guess.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The nominating dogs started a good while ago. To
>>>>>>>honor the people who owned the dogs, more than
>>the
>>>>>>>dogs. People hunted several good dogs in many
>>>>states
>>>>>>>and promoted the breed. NO!!!! They did not win
>>>>>>>anything in competition.
>>>>>>>They won many new members. Many new friends.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Backyard Champions. That is the term someone
>>>>>started.
>>>>>>>It has worked well, till right now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes good dogs are a nice thing. I will take a
>>GOOD
>>>>>>>FRIEND, over a good dog any day.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I got in this breed because of the dogs. I
>stayed
>>>>in
>>>>>>>it because of the people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>We had a fellow write a column for a couple of
>>>>years.
>>>>>>>Toughest man I ever met in my life. Polio.
>>Hunted
>>>>>>>with crutches. If one of his dogs had died while
>>>he
>>>>>>>was in the Club, I would have nominated it for
>the
>>>>>>>hall of fame, out of respect for him. If someone
>>>>had
>>>>>>>bad mouthed his dog in front of that man. An
>>>>>>>asswhipping would have happened. No and, if, or
>>>>butts
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What we have is far from perfect.
>>>>>>>Maybe it needs major modification?
>>>>>>>Volunteer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>jerry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jerry,
>>>>>> I am not trying to be disrespectful, but unless
>>>>>>that gentelman is the one breeding females and
>>>>passing
>>>>>>on his genes you are hurting the entire breed by
>>>>>>electing a dog based on the fact the owner is one
>>>>heck
>>>>>>of a good guy. That has to be one of the worst
>>>>>>reasons I've read for nominating a dog. We have
>to
>>>>>>put the betterment of the breed ahead of
>>>>friendships.
>>>>>>We could have the nicest, hardest working guy in
>>the
>>>>>>club, but if his dogs don't make the breed better
>>or
>>>>>>exemplify the breed standards, no way he gets
>>>>>>noiminated for the HOF or anything else for that
>>>>>>matter, ass whopping not with standing. Fred
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe that this is the perfect place to stop
>and
>>>>>think about awards categorites. A dog does not
>>>belong
>>>>>in the hall of fame based on it's owners value as a
>>>>>human. I do agree with Jerry about giving
>>>recognition
>>>>>to folks who set themselves apart in some way and
>>>also
>>>>>the importance of people over dogs. This is
>>however,
>>>>>a breed assoc. and by definition is centered around
>>>>>dogs first. Giving recognition to the man
>afflicted
>>>>>with polio is something that would be more
>>>>>appropiately answered with a sportsmanship award or
>>>>>something of the like. If the assoc. incorporates
>>>>>only one other award at the world hunt...this
>should
>>>>>be it. I do however think there should be a
>>breeders
>>>>>award and/or a lifetime achievement award for which
>>I
>>>>>would like to nominate Ron Ganus for, right now.
>>>Yes,
>>>>>that goes for both categories.
>>>>Dan, A worthy idea. Can we count on you to have a
>>>>draft of the criteria we would use to consider an
>>>>award like this?? This is a starting point. Maybe
>the
>>>>draft could be presented to the BOD for some input
>>>>prior to the World hunt? Can you get the ball
>rolling
>>>>for us? Thanks, Perry
>>>
>>>10-4 Perry. I'll do some checking into some other
>>>organizations that have similar awards to look at
>some
>>>templates and get back to you.
>>Fred, I finally took the time to investigate about
>>Cassie not being listed in the year book in the hall
>>of fame. Cassie is listed in the HOF. We have 2
>>catagories. 1. World hunt winners 2 is elected.Cassie
>>is under Female World Hunt winners. I used the 07
>>yearbook. Perry
>
>Thanks Perry!
My timing is not the greatest but I wanted to respond to a couple things that came after my last post. First would like to say that making people mad at me is not something I really enjoy. Second, I would say that puting time in on the computer writing stuff is time that I really dont have at this point. It is time taken from something else. So that raises the question as to why I would make the posts I have made in recent weeks? Honestly, it is answered by the answer to Perrys' original question to me: Is there anything at all about the ALCBA that I like?

The answer in my mind is clear. Yes, I like it's great dogs and it's great people. I think they are so great that it is a mystery to me why more tree dog people dont appreciate and aren't crazy excited about it as I have been. I have been that way since watching a dog do some things I have never seen a dog do befor, and by it become wildly successful at a very very difficult game.

I like to study dogs. I like to watch what they do and then try to figure out why. I like to study humans and groups of humans in the same way. Actually, I am that way with all of nature.

Also, I, like about half of all humanity, "sort by different". For genetic reasons we can not control, we look at life and situations and notice what is "off, wrong, or missing". People who "sort by same" notice how great things are and how every thing fits together so well.
The two types can drive each other batty at times, yet most marriages contain one of each. In my mind if two people in a marriage always agree on everything, "one of them is unnecessary". Like it or not every successful organization has to have both types to stay vibrant and healthy.

So you see I have this equation in my mind: (Amazing dogs) + (a world of people who appreciate amazing dogs) = (dogs that have a huge following and are appreciated and respected by a rapidly growing number of people.)

That is why the Leopard Cur world keeps me up at nights. The equation of reality does not nearly match the way the equation should be in my "sort by different" mind. Something is "off, wrong or missing" and it keeps me searching until I can give myself an answer for why.

It is this trait that made me a good trapper, and a good hunter, and a good dog man. Because I can look at a landscape or a situation, or a dog, and see what is off wrong or missing. With hunting or trapping or dogs, I am pretty good at using that information. With People, and groups of people, I really suck at trying to use that information. I learned that very young when at age 22 a church heard me preach and then invited me to be their pastor.

I have had to come to some conclusions as to the why of the unequal Leopard Cur equation. In my mind, I understand the why. I have to. So I can sleep.

If any one wants to chew me out privately, or get my take on the why, I have included my email.

Thanks to perry and all the others for all their hard work and their gracious patience with me. david

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