| Subject: Re: What has he got that I havenīt part two |
Author:
Corrigap
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Date Posted: 09:43:52 11/14/03 Fri
In reply to:
iain
's message, "Re: What has he got that I havenīt part two" on 06:10:41 11/14/03 Fri
>>>>>2)What Corrigap said - how do you know you are on
>2D
>>>>>and not 2A - I seem to have the right beam ( from
>>>>>memory it is 0002 and 07d4 ? ).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No, what I said was;
>>>>
>>>>My next step would be to check the alignment of the
>>>>dish very carefully. Being perfectly aligned on 2a
>>and
>>>>b does not necessarily guarantee perfect alignment
>on
>>>>2d. Sometimes, a movement of a couple of mm can make
>>a
>>>>big difference.
>>>>
>>>>meaning that maximizing the signal is a lot more
>>>>difficult on 2d than it is on 2a/b. The
>significantly
>>>>lower power level (39 watts) from 2d makes exact
>>>>alignment extremely critical. You will need an
>>>>alignment that is absolutely spot-on for 2d.
>>>>Adjustments for 2d should always be done using 2d
>>>>(low-band)frequencies, whether you're using
>>>>professional equipment or just the signal bars on
>the
>>>>digibox. I found on many occasions when aligning my
>>>>dish that even just pressing lightly on the sides of
>>>>the dish (to give a horizontal movement) was enough
>>to
>>>>affect the signal level noticeably, i.e. a movement
>>of
>>>>no more than a few mm could lose or get back the
>>>>signal.
>>>>
>>>>If you are going to attempt to get a usable signal
>>>>from 2d in these parts on a 1.5m dish, then every
>>link
>>>>in your signal chain has to be working at maximum
>>>>efficiency. But even if you do succeed in getting
>>24/7
>>>>reception in clear weather, you won't have any real
>>>>bad-weather margin to fall back on.
>>>>
>>>>BTW, I beg to differ with Rich about the Panny 30
>>>>being the answer to your problems. It's a good box
>>but
>>>>it won't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear - if
>>>>you'll pardon the expression. I don't think any
>>>>digibox can cope with the deep trough that the 2d
>>>>signal falls into twice a day in this part of the
>>>>world (i.e. after 11.00 and again after 19.30)when
>>>>connected to a 1.5m dish. I struggled bravely with
>my
>>>>Panny 30 on a 1.5m Gibertini with an MTI flanged LNB
>>>>not a million miles away from you.
>>>>
>>>>I can't say, either, that I've ever noticed any
>>>>difference from tweaking the skew on any of the
>>>>dishes/LNBs that I've used.
>>>>
>>>>There's only one real fix for a weak signal - a
>>bigger
>>>>dish.
>>>>
>>>>Corrigap
>>>
>>>
>>>It's not that simple. The system is only as good as
>>>the weakest part. Some boxes are simply no good in
>>>fringe areas even with a bigger dish (like you say
>>>silk purse/sows ear).
>>>It's because the tuners are not selective enough. The
>>>tuner picks up the stronger 2a/b signals and sets the
>>>gain according to those. A bigger dish may even make
>>>it worse!
>>>
>>>So start with a panny 30 and work from there.
>>>/iain
>>
>>If you read the thread properly, you'll see that my
>>comments about 'silk purse and sow's ear' were made in
>>the context of a 1.5m dish not being enough *together
>>with a panny 30* in this part of the world (southern
>>Sweden). It was/is my belief that if Brian upgraded to
>>a Panny 30 with his 1.5m dish, he would have got the
>>same disappointing results that I had with that
>>particular combination. He and I only live a short
>>distance from each other.
>>
>>I agree that some boxes are no good in fringe areas
>>and that 'the system is only as good as its weakest
>>part', which I more or less said in my post.
>>
>>I was trying to pass on my own experience of having a
>>1.5m Gibertini and a panny 30, which was not a
>>fully-working 2d system until I upgraded to a 1.8 m
>>Channel Master. Now I have almost perfect reception
>>24/7. So in this particular case, based on personal
>>experience, I don't agree that a new box is the way to
>>go initially; the safer bet as far as I'm concerned
>>would be a bigger dish first and *then* a better
>>digibox, if necessary.
>>
>>Corrigap
>
>Sorry don't agree. Maybe a 150 is not big enough with
>a panny where you are. I haven't said otherwise. I'm
>just saying that "without a panny" or some equivalent
>box that works well in fringe areas it may not matter
>how big the dish is. I agree the only way to get more
>signal strength to the box is a bigger dish. But that
>won't help if the box can't use it properly. So what I
>mean is "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's
>ear of a box".
>
>Large dishes are expensive a 2nd hand panny costs
>around Ģ150. So I would start with the panny and work
>up with the dish if possible.
>
>If you read the thread properly you'll see the
>original posting referred to a someone else in the
>area with an almost identical system. The question was
>"what's he got that I don't?". The answer is a
>different box.
>
>I agree with you on the skew though. I've never found
>that made a lot of difference unless it's way out.
>
>/Iain
Looks like we'll just have to agree to differ on this one.
>If you read the thread properly you'll see the
>original posting referred to a someone else in the
>area with an almost identical system. The question was
>"what's he got that I don't?". The answer is a
>different box
Yes, I did notice that, that's why I was trying to help Brian with my experiences, ie what you haven't got is probably a sufficiently large dish for your precise location. Note that I didn't suggest a larger dish until Brian had posted about being disappointed with the Amstrad DRX-200 he had borrowed.
I suggested a larger dish because of my own experiences and the numerous reports I've read of inconsistencies and sidelobes etc outside of the main 2d footprint. There have been other reports of people with similar eqpt living close together and getting disparate results. I'm 30 km from Copenhagen and get nothing from the V channels while people living there seem to have no trouble getting them (Expat for instance). This, to my mind, is an indicator of the vagaries of 2d reception when you're outside the official footprint, about which a lot has been written in various newsgroups over the last year or so.
There's also an interesting point here about when tuner swamping kicks in. As far as I can understand, it's when you get up to really large dish sizes that this starts to be a problem, eg like the ones used in Cyprus and parts of southern Italy. 'Iceman' and 'Barney' have written about their experiences with this (if their posts are still on the server that is):
http://www.satellites.co.uk/php-bin/forum/
What all of this boils down to is whether the more likely candidate for improved reception, in Brian's case, is the box or the dish. My money's on the dish. Don't forget that Brian has already tried a recommended fringe-reception digibox, ie the Amstrad DRX-200 (which is said to have the same tuner as the panny 30) with poorer results than his original box! It is most probably the case, IMO, that Brian's friend is lucky to be living in an exact location that supports a 1.5m dish.
In any event, we know that the borrowed DRX-200 failed to provide the same level of reception on Brian's system as was the case 24/7 on his friend's system.
All of this is the reason why I suspect the dish rather than the box; sorry if it's a bit long-winded.
Corrigap
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