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Subject: I wish I had some idea what all this raving means... Author: Ned Depew [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 09:14:33 06/17/05 Fri In reply to: Thomas Koulos 's message, "Re: Equal Rights is not a special interest" on 08:30:34 06/17/05 Fri Tom - It's hard to have an intelligent conversation with you when you start off with a sentence like: "Ned,I didn't know that you can insure human behaviour without paying the premeum to the special interest." Is that supposed to make sense? Because it doesn't. The entire history or Human government is about trying to "insure human behavior" - to keep us from killing and robbing one another, to create laws that allow us to live in relative harmony and peace. The US especially has had the (as yet unmet, but still aspired to) goal of "insuring human behavior" in order to offer equality to everyone. That's exactly the opposite of "special interests. It is not the equal rights advocates who pit humans against one another, but those - like you apparently - who see some of your neighbors (whom you choose to brand "special interests") as not deserving of the same rights you enjoy. While you are right that being gay per-se has nothing to do with budgets - that's exactly the point Byrne is making. People who happen to be gay, in Hudson and elsewhere - make as much of a contribution to those problems as people who don't happen to be. Therefore, they should be entitled to the same rights, protections and treatment as everyone else. At present, in our socienty, they aren't. No one is asking for "gay-rights" There is no such thing as "gay rights." There are the civil rights that are guaranteed to all citizens by our constitution - including the right to equal treatment under law. Gay people have been denied some of those rights in the past, and are still being denied some of them. Our local elected officials - and all who aspire to be "leaders" - need to think about whether they really believe in "liberty and justice for ALL" or not, and come out strongly for equal civil rights for ALL. It is your prejudiced mis-reading that gives you the idea that Peter Jung, Byrne Fone or anyone is talking about the "superiority" of of any group over any other. Once again, people have simply pointed out that ALL groups in the community had contributed to its current prosperity and NONE should be discriminated against. Apparently you disagree? No one is ignoring the fact that gay couples have their own relationship problems, just as all couples do. In fact, again, that that meshes perfectly with the point Byrne is making, which you apparently missed. And no one, as I pointed out very clearly above, is arguing that "gay rights will solve the host of problems facing society." That's just a silly straw man you are setting up to avoid the issue. The issue is that you can't support freedom only for yourself. If you wish to live in a free country, you have to extend to everyone the same rights to live freely and the same responsibilities of civility and respect that you demand for yourself. If you demand "special treatment" for your self or your group (by denying the same treatment to others) then it is you who are "dividing" society and setting people against one another. And you will have to live with the consequences. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I wish I had some idea what all this raving means... Author: Thomas Koulos [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:14:07 06/17/05 Fri Perhaps one of your FoH guiding Lights can refer you to the short lived Gomez paper that is clearly writen for your intelectual understanding.P.S. Gene and I are waiting for your facts on the SLC layoffs with your factual clearity.:):)Did Byrne give you a copy of his books with his autograph in it??:):)Tom Koulos

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: I've already given you the facts about SLC. Author: Ned Depew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:53:02 06/17/05 Fri The facts are that no permanent employees of SLC lost thier jobs as a result of the rejection fo the proposal for the Greenport plant. Three contract employees who were specifically hired to work on the Greenport project through its approval or rejection were let go when the proposal was withdrawn, but the same number of people are employed by SLC in the region at this time ase were employed at the launch of the proposal in 1999. Those are the facts.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I've already given you the facts about SLC. Author: Gene [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:09:18 06/18/05 Sat The Gays have the same rights as we do. They just don't have to keep waving it in our faces all the time. If two fellas wanted to get married who weren't gay would that be alright?

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: No one's waving anything in your face, Gene, Author: Ned Depew [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:00:28 06/18/05 Sat If we allow some competent, adult citizens the right to form a household and take advantage of all the privileges and undertake all the responsibilities that involves, then we must do it for all competent adult citizens. Otherwise rights are not "equal." It's a pretty simple concept. Why should gay life partners not have the same rights - to retirement and social security benefits earned in concert, to community property, to act as health proxy, to child custody - that are routinely and unquestioningly awarded to heterosexual life partners? People are asking for basic fairness, Gene - equal treatment under law - which our Constitution guarantees to all citizens. Where I come from, if you make a promise and you want to consider yourself a person of honor, you had better keep it. Is it different where you grew up?