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| Subject: My Bad Time Share Experience | |
Author: Kelvin | [ Next Thread |
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] Date Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 15:08:19 The following is the except of the complaint I lodged with CASE on 4 Jul 2004, but the response I got was there is nothing much they can do about it, and have no further dealing with the company.. ***** Dear Sir I have read many complains regarding time share and I hope to seek on CASE’s expert advice on this matter as I believe CASE has handled many similar cases. My wife and I bought a time-share in 2001 from Asian Travel Club (ATC) for an agreed price of SGD 19,000 to be made out in several payments. This purchase was made through International Resort Networks (IRN) a marketer of ATC. The last payment was made in 2003. We have also paid up one year’s maintenance fee. However, we have not used the 7-day stay we are entitled to annually for the year 2003. We chose a resort in Phuket as our home holiday resort which we “so-called” co-own with other members. On this matter of maintenance fee, some time last year, we were asked to pay a maintenance fee of SGD 481. I was taken aback with this amount as in the agreement signed it was stated “The Maintenance Fee including the annual ATC (Asian Travel Club) Membership Fee at the date of this Agreement is $315 for a studio unit, $400 for a 1 Bedroom unit, $485 for a 2 Bedroom unit, and the first Maintenance Fee shall become payable to the First Year of Occupancy outlined in Schedule A”. We opted for a 1 Bedroom unit. At the time of purchase, we asked what kind of increment in maintenance is expected and we were assured that it would be very “minimal” expected to be around the range of annual inflation. After receiving this notice to pay up $481, I called up to ask for the reason for the big increase. I was told it was due to upgrading and renovation works. Besides maintenance, upgrading and renovation cost were not mentioned to us when we signed the agreement. We reluctantly paid up this sum for fear that ATC may hold back our entitlement if we do not pay in full. 2 days ago, a staff from IRN called me and asked me why I did not attend to a members meeting they had organized. He told me a letter was sent out to all members informing them of this meeting in which they have important announcements to make. I told did not receive the letter. He then told me that because ATC have to urgently “close some outstanding issues”, they want me to come down on that day itself as they have already met all other members except for me and my wife. Otherwise, I would be left with no options. Even though, I was given such short notice I went down to see them. And this is what they told me: ATC is no longer keen in the Time Share business and is moving on to a new business area where members no longer “own” a resort but entitled to free stay for a specific periodic. In summary the current way of running this business is already outdated. The main difference is, members of the new program are no longer the owner of the resort, and therefore no longer need to pay anymore annual maintenance fee. The catch is, for our case, my wife and I have to fork out an additional SGD 5,800 to be able to move over to this new program, where we would be entitled to 2 weeks stay instead of my current 1 week stay plan. The persuaded me to move to the new plan as they pointed that out of the 7,000 owners of this home holiday resort which we currently jointly own, only 200 (including us) have not opted to change to the new scheme. And also to consider that ATC would start to focus more on the new program.. As I do not wish to pay any more, I told them I will stay with the current plan and at worst I am prepared to forgo what I have paid up. The shocking response I got was that even though I choose to forgo the full payment, I am still obliged to pay maintenance fee so long as I am an owner of the holiday resort. My wife and I are unhappy on several issues. Firstly, the increase of the maintenance fee without giving any prior notice or reason. They told me there is a notice sent out, but we did not receive anything about it. And also the quantum jump in fee from $400 to $481, i.e. a hefty 20% increase. Does this mean that we as owners have no choice but to accept any proposed increased in maintenance fee, however hefty it may be in future? The last I heard is that the maintenance fee has been increased again to SGD500. Secondly, we are uneasy over the abrupt manner in which the new proposal was put forward to us. We never received their letter of invitation (if there ever was one) and no early reminder was given to me except for this “courtesy” call to me at the 11th hour. I am also beginning to wonder if there ever was a so-called group meeting with all the other members. As we recall, it seemed that notice for our payment is prompt but not for any other matters. Thirdly, it was never brought to our attention of the legal obligation that we still have to continue paying for the maintenance, even though we no longer want to use the resort or even in my case, if we choose to write-off the SGD 19,000. Is this a real legal obligation or are they pointing this out to “persuade” us to move to the new scheme? Can we do anything about this “legal obligation” as its implication was never explained to us as layman when we signed up with the time share program. We are very reluctant to upgrade as we have an uneasy feeling about the whole episode and also from our past dealings with IRN. Also I do not know if I have to sign up another onerous legal agreement. This is a very expensive lesson learnt, but as of now what are the options available for me to totally get out of this? I can be contacted at xxxxxxxx (blanked off). Thank you very much for your attention. **** [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> Subject: Thanks for sharing | |
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Author: Henry H [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Sun, Nov 21 2004, 11:27:36 Thanks Kelvin for your info, How's your holiday experience with ATC? Any resort/country you go? I bought ATC for $7000 from IRN and still paying instalment plan. Should I continue paying? Regards, [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> Subject: Big doubt over the topic | |
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Author: Kelvin K [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2004, 15:47:19 Hi all, Just today that i heard the whole IRN-ATC episode is a con! Can anyone out there pls help to verify whether the IRN-ATC is really a big con? I bought the ATC in July2003 for $10K from IRN and the final installment will b on July2005. The agreement signed is non-cancelable. Did anyone successfully cancelled in the midway of the installment payment or even successfully get their refund? [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> Subject: Been to a holiday | |
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Author: Ming [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Mon, Nov 22 2004, 13:36:54 Hi All, It is truly a piece of disturbing news to hear bad vibes regarding ATC. I myself bought a membership from ATC in Aug 2001. Is this company REALLY a scam as everyone potrays it to be? Has anyone actually went for a holiday under the portfolio? I really want this ATC thingie to work as I plan to use my first usage for my honeymoon. *sigh* Cheers, Ming [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> Subject: seems like no one went for holiday | |
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Author: Henry H [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Mon, Nov 22 2004, 22:24:18 I think those time share still paying owners over at this forum.....NEVER go for holiday under time share. Or They cancelled their instalment plan midway of their purchase....so cannot go for holiday. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: Timeshare? | |
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Author: Luna [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2004, 23:59:10 My goodness, I bought the same thing from IRN and paid almost 70%, how do I cancel it? Please advice? [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> Subject: Been to a Holiday | |
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Author: George [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2004, 12:57:26 Email me and i will advice u about what u have signed up for. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> Subject: Hear About My Experience | |
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Author: Karina [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2004, 19:53:35 I was glad that my intuition has helped me chance upon this website today. Someone from 'CCD' called me two days ago on the pretext that its company had been assigned by Timeshare Association of Singapore (still figuring out if this org exist) to assist timeshare owners get their refund since many complaints have been lodged with CASE. Initially, I had my doubts and asked what is CCD only to learn that it meant "Customer Care Division". I then asked again, CCD of what company and the reassuring reply was their company helps timeshare owners who has never used their holiday weeks but had been paying the maintenance fee get a 80% refund. She then asked why I did not turn up at a Hyatt presentation recently (strangely, which I was never invited to, to begin with). Sounds convincing enough but I had to make an appointment and bring down my timeshare doucments to Ngee Ann City. Again I casted my doubts and asked if the company is another Timeshare Company but the caller denied. Strange thing was she knew that I would want to come down with my husband and therefore the appointment had to be made at about 7pm onwards. Why? because about a month ago, I received a call from Probiz Network (from another phone number) and the caller claimed that there was a ready buyer who was interested in buying my timeshare. When I questioned who could be the ready buyer, I was told that it was a big MNC. I was further told that all I needed was to pay small admin charge of $298,I would get back what I had paid for the timeshare and was given the example of $12K (incidentally, that was the amount I had paid for my timeshare), within two weeks. But I had to bring my timeshare doucuments and call personally at the office whereby the Manager would go through my documents to find out what I own and explain the procedures to me. I was asked to go down that very day. This sounded too good to be true so I asked again, how would they know my contacts and that I own timeshare and was told that the company knew only my name and number. I then told the caller, I had to discuss with my husband before letting them know and that I could only meet up after 7pm. After some thought, I decided not to go for it then as I had recently paid up the 'increased' maintenance fee and thought of planning a holiday next year. A week after the call, another guy called me and asked if I was interested to sell my timeshare which I declined then. My suspicious nature in dealing with Timeshare all started back in 2000 where my husband and I like many others, 'won' their trip along Orchard Road outside Faber House. Then, after a presentation which stretched from a 'promised' 45mins to 4hours,(and without even a drink) we were coaxed into buying a MTC Timeshare for $12,000 after trading in the prize which we were supposedly to have won. Two years later in 2002, after we had paid the amount duly and fully, I waited in vain for the membership package to arrive. When I called up MTC in Thailand to book a holiday week which was paid and due for that year, I was prompted to call IRN to check my membership which apparently had not been processed. I then enquired with IRN who gave me the respond that they were in the midst of calling owners of MTC Timeshare like myself that week (how coincident)to invite me to their office for a chat to introduce me ATC as it had received feedback/complaints that MTC did not have many new resorts to offer. I was invited to the IRN office to speak to the Manager who then asked me to exchange my MTC Ownership for ATC. Of course, ATC came pricier so I told the Manager I refused to put in any more cash for the timeshare. He didn't pursue as I already angry and frustrated. He then suggested to downgrade my timeshare from a MTC one-bedroom to a ATC studio which I did. I was also promised that I would get my ATC membership processed immediately. Well, this promise was at least fulfilled. Four years later, I am none the wiser, simply because I am still hopeful to get a refund for my hard-earned cash which I had paid for a really really bad deal. I would have gone to the Ngee Ann City with my husband this evening if i had not taken the time to read all the postings on this website. I might have been hoaxed into a worst deal. After reading all the postings plus my personal experience, I can't help but believe that with all similiar tactics they deploy, these companies are all in cahoots and they appear to share databases. The best part was, I had the 'courtesy' to call the company after reading the internet postings that I would not be turning up this evening at Ngee Ann City. The CCD Consultant asked if I wanted to shift my appointment of which I said 'No, because I have just read too much about the scams on the internet'. Her stunned reply was, " Oh, you have read about the scams!" I replied, " Yes, please don't waste my time" and I was even stunner when she said "OK"! before hanging up! For now, I will just treat this episode as 'an investment gone really bad' and hopefully the holiday which I am planning for can make up those bad feelings. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> Subject: Probiz and LGM | |
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Author: Kelvin [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Sun, Dec 05 2004, 23:43:41 Hi Karina, There was a second part of my unhappiness which I did not include in my first. That was when frustration got me to the point of wanting to get rid of the time share. I made known my intention of this to IRN and went through the same experience you had wif ProBiz and this company in Ngee Ann City, LGM. The modus operandi is the same. ProBiz will call to tell there is a buyer and will require a deposit of $298. I will not go into the details of this. In short ProBiz did not managed to sell for me and it took me 6 weeks to get my money back, after some heated exchange over the phone and 2 personal visits to their office. The interesting part is that it did not end there. After that, out of the blue, I got a call from CCD (just like you) asking me to go to their office in Ngee Ann City. Out of curiosity I did, and not surprisingly, was another time share company. To cut the story short, I gave them a piece of my mind and walked out. So you are not alone. And it appears that these companies involved do not work alone. As for CASE, I have decided not to renew my membership as it is due for renewal. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> Subject: My Bad Timeshare Experience | |
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Author: George [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2004, 13:09:58 I seriously emphatise with u on your predicament. U must have bought a 2Bed unit for a hefty $19k! Let me see, u were initially told only 6 Resorts free every year to use with your membership and when your desire level catupulted they told heh presto we can give u 102 Resorts free! Well this is the trick they play on unsuspecting victims. Sorry to tell u there are others who have paid far lesser sum for the same unit. U see timeshare is bargainable and there is no fix price. That is why there is little or no resale value. I cannot understand why CASE being a consumer watchdog cannot get the government to intervene about this mass scam! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> Subject: No Giving Up | |
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Author: Karina [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Thu, Dec 09 2004, 16:38:21 They sure are not giving up thinking I might just be conned again. This time, someone from CV called again last week and threatened that they are going to close my file and that they would not ever be able to help me again should I go to them in future. (Oh Boy, was I scared?) I questioned cynically, "If you can be sure that I would be able to get my cheque on the spot after selling off my timeshare, I would consider coming down to your office". All he could say was, since I didn't turn up the previous week, he just wanted to remind me that they are giving me another chance to consider before closing my file. How helpful and kind, and yes thanks indeed for the chance of a lifetime, I would never be conned again! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> Subject: Any advice for this regarding timeshare? | |
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Author: Kathy [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Sun, Jan 16 2005, 0:15:18 My sister got her timeshare stuff for some Spanish whatever a few years ago. She'd paid around SGD14,000. Just a few days ago, she received a call saying that they have a buyer for her timeshare. She'd just need to pay them SGD398 and when the timeshare is sold, she'd get her refund. She's supposed to meet them around 7 on Monday ie. 2 days away! She requested me to go with her and I agreed. Am doing some homework on this when I saw this thread. She doesn't mind losing SGD398 to get back SGD14,000. But I'm worried that she'd be harassed into another timeshare or like what you have said - timeshare not sold and no refund of the "fees". Pls advise if we should attend it and write off the SGD14,000 or take a risk? Thanks. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> Subject: Re: Any advice for this regarding timeshare? | |
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Author: A [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Fri, Oct 21 2005, 15:51:46 don't throw good money after bad! you have been conned once - don't fall for a second one! do a Google search and read up. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> Subject: Request for timeshare victims to share their experience | |
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Author: Lek Chee Yong [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Wed, Oct 05 2005, 18:29:26 Gd day All TIME SHARE victims, We are students from SMU (Singapore Management University) and are currently working on a major project on Ethical issues caused by Timeshare companies) .We have read about your misfortunes and are very sorry that things have happened this way. It would be very beneficial for young people like us if you can share your experiences with us. Either in the form of interview (voice recording or video recording) of which would not take longer than 5mins. Or if you are free, then u can also come down in person. In any case, its your choice and be sure that all this is confidential and would not be used in any form of propanganda. The purpose is to let the young generation like us be more aware of unethical timeshare companies. Pls get back to us asap. Thanks for taking time to read the mail. Lek Chee Yong Undergraduate SMU 96225681 / 98428533 EMAIL : cheeyongl.2005@business.smu.edu.sg : susulek@hotmail.com [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> Subject: Re: My Bad Time Share Experience | |
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Author: sim [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: Sun, Oct 23 2005, 16:33:08 Hello Mr Lek, Stop pestering the people here to be interviewed for your projects. Didn't you not read this posting directed at you? http://www.voy.com/161450/779.html [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |