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Monday, April 20, 1:54:43

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• It would be just about impossible to convince a loyalist (which LJ certainly is) that the British side was *not* the "right" one, even if you were able to convince him that the British would lose. There are a lot of people in Canada today, who are the descendants of American loyalists, who left during and after the war. Besides, the British army doesn't live there; defeat doesn't actually mean anything to them personally, save that they go home or go fight somewhere else. They wouldn't suffer following the war, like a defeated populace would. And it looked like sure defeat for the Americans, right up to the battle of Saratoga; no one would have believed the British would lose. (NT) -- maddiej, 01:14:24 11/21/07 Wed
  • What a wonderful explanation of history. If only my American History teachers could have explained things that well. What I kept wondering was could J & C have risked telling John about Claire's 'ability' to foretell the future? What would he think of TT? Certainly coming from Jamie, he would have to give it some serious thought? (NT) -- tlk2vicki, 02:57:41 11/21/07 Wed
  • I don't think that John could be convinced. Even if he actually believed what Jamie could tell him about the outcome of the revolution he'd have to look at the possible repercussions for his family. Don't you think Hal will also show up in Echo? Could John fight against him or even worse Willie? If John were to switch sides he'd not only risk being labeled a traitor and the possibility of being hanged, but his family's honor and reputation as well. Willie's title and property would surely be at risk as well, especially if he were to go over the the rebel side with John. (NT) -- Jane, 08:37:08 11/21/07 Wed
  
  

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• I imagine that all of these questions will be explored in great detail in AN ECHO IN THE BONE (book 7). I for one would like to see Lord John switch sides, but as a former British army officer and a staunch Loyalist, he would have to be provided with extremely convincing reasons to do so. Not to mention the fact that it's treason, after all. He would be presented with the same moral dilemma that Jamie faced in DRAGONFLY -- if the Americans lose, he could end up being executed as a traitor. And even if they told him the truth about Claire in an attempt to persuade him that the Americans will win, would he believe them? Even Jamie didn't believe it at first, until he saw it with his own eyes. (NT) -- Karen, 04:40:24 11/21/07 Wed
  

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• I don't think John's sense of honor would allow him to do so. (NT) -- sharon fisher, 04:59:50 11/21/07 Wed
  • I agree, Sharon; nor would Jamie's. since he is well aware of John's loyalty. (NT) -- teddie, 06:49:20 11/21/07 Wed
    • I'm not sure I agree that *Jamie's* sense of honor would prevent him from at least trying to talk John into joining the American side. I can't help feeling that Claire will argue that Jamie should do precisely that. On the other hand, we have already seen, in ABOSAA, that Jamie knows some of his friends will be fighting on the losing side (like Major MacDonald). I just wonder if he will try harder with Lord John than he did with Major MacDonald, given their very close and long-standing friendship. (NT) -- Karen, 06:58:54 11/21/07 Wed
  
  

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• I'd say the outcome of Culloden was clear already for the Scots, but there wasn't any interest in changing sides. John is English and I'd like to think of him being loyal to his country and crown, even if he'd know the result of the war. Jamie didn't have loyality towards the crown and still he took breaking his word seriously. (NT) -- Helka, 07:26:53 11/21/07 Wed
  

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• Claire's already mentioned to Jamie that he should talk to LJG about the outcome of the war; he refused, knowing that John holds his loyalty to King & Country dear (in ABOSAA somewhere--I think the last of the letters brought by Bobby). I could have seen Bree trying tho, if she hadn't been distracted by Amanda's condition & the existence of Willie. Don't know if she would have succeeded. (NT) -- devenhuis, 08:10:23 11/21/07 Wed
  • OK, now you've got me curious :-) If you can find the reference, I would be interested. I glanced quickly through the last part of ABOSAA and didn't see it. (NT) -- Karen, 09:08:08 11/21/07 Wed
  
  

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• Also, Willie's personal standing would be a lot more damaged by joining the American side and *winning*, than it would be by losing on the British side. Remember, he's an earl. Most of his property, estates, etc. are in England. None of that would be affected by a British loss in the Colonies. But for Willie to become a rebel himself...there's no real reason for him to do that, is there? (NT) -- maddiej, 09:35:52 11/21/07 Wed
  

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• Thinking about it some more--this is interesting [g]--*would* Claire be all that eager to convert people to the rebel side? She isn't an American herself; she's British by birth and upbringing. She has the perspective of being a time-traveler, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's idealistic about America, except as it affects the future for Brianna and the kids. And if she thinks that the Revolution will succeed in any case, why would she be trying to get Willie on the American side? It would just put him in greater danger, for no good reason. (NT) -- maddiej, 09:39:40 11/21/07 Wed
  • Well, Claire did live 20 years in America. That has to alter her perspective somewhat. She certainly seems to want the American side to win ("You can at least promise me the victory", Jamie says in ABOSAA, to which she readily agrees.) I don't know that she would be in a position to influence anything Willie does, though, since they haven't even met since Willie was 12 or so. (NT) -- Karen, 09:58:31 11/21/07 Wed
  
  

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• Heads up there is a link to a bit from Echo...with Willie (with recollections of John) on the Excerpt Board...non-spoiler, no insight at all into this particular thread..but good reading to those who like excerpts. The coolest part is if you read Diana's comments you can see the progress in her writing from a kernel of a thought (snap2) all the way to what she calls "a chunk" (I assume she considers "snap7" a chunk). (NT) -- Jane, 12:32:32 11/21/07 Wed
  • I wouldn't assume it will STAY "non-spoiler". I've been following the progress of that snapshot since she posted the initial version a few days ago, but I may have to stop soon. It really is getting too quasi-spoilerish for my taste. Please note that the thread on Compuserve is definitely marked SPOILERS, just in case. I agree that it's interesting to see it come together, but there is no guarantee that she won't give away some plot point. So if the prospect of that bothers you, I'd be careful reading these. (NT) -- Karen, 12:48:27 11/21/07 Wed
    • I think it is safe for now..herself is knee deep in Thanksgiving preparations, no progress seems to have been made on this chunk. You are right it could easily turn spoiler, but glad you agree it is "safe" at the point of the link, so all can enjoy. Hope you and everyone else here who celebrates has a VERY Happy Thanksgiving! (NT) -- Jane, 08:04:01 11/22/07 Thu
  
  

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• WOW! Thanks for the great insight. I was really torn about this- like many have said, John's loyalty (as well all know very well), wouldn't allow him to jump the the American side simply because he was *told* the outcome. I will admit- I have only read ABOSAA once (am in second re read right now), so I didn't remember the aforementioned part about Willie. I happened to be thinking about it the other day, and was wondering if it seemed like a plausible reason for Jaime to tell John about Claire etc. ect. (NT) -- Oleander, 13:47:13 11/21/07 Wed