Wow, good call. I hadn't thought of it that way, since it wasn't like they were meeting for the first time, "sniffing around" each other needing a brawl to establish everyone's respective masculinity prior to forming close bonds of friendship and loyalty, about which time-honored male tradition Jamie comments to Claire several times. But they clearly did need another bloodletting, and something more direct - - if less bloody in a literal sense - - than the Ardsmuir flogging. Is this the first time they actually hurl words as weapons at each other? They are certainly sharp enough to cut deeply. It makes sense as a purging after long months (how long has Jamie been at Helwater?) of pent up rage and resentment on Jamie's part, and, possibly, some resentment on John's part for the fact of his own ungovernable feelings. I suppose there would have been more fists, but for the strange way the scene ends, which is still driving <I>me</I> animal crackers. Time for a re-read? -- LJG Discussion board

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Date Posted: 16:53:00 10/26/07 Fri
Author:

pamelalass
Subject: Wow, good call. I hadn't thought of it that way, since it wasn't like they were meeting for the first time, "sniffing around" each other needing a brawl to establish everyone's respective masculinity prior to forming close bonds of friendship and loyalty, about which time-honored male tradition Jamie comments to Claire several times. But they clearly did need another bloodletting, and something more direct - - if less bloody in a literal sense - - than the Ardsmuir flogging. Is this the first time they actually hurl words as weapons at each other? They are certainly sharp enough to cut deeply. It makes sense as a purging after long months (how long has Jamie been at Helwater?) of pent up rage and resentment on Jamie's part, and, possibly, some resentment on John's part for the fact of his own ungovernable feelings. I suppose there would have been more fists, but for the strange way the scene ends, which is still driving me animal crackers. Time for a re-read?
In reply to: MelvaT 's message, "I know what happens next is hard to read, but did anyone else need it? The fight that is. In Voyager, when Jamie, out of the blue, starts counting the benefits of Helwater, (Chapter 16 Willie) he includes "somehow resumed his odd half-friendship with Lord John Grey." (*VBG* Bowing to Jane here.) Didn't it make you pause?... I really wanted to know what that "somehow" was. Drove me animal-crackers, thinking I'd missed something. It just didn't add up to forgiveness at this point, sounded more like Alzheimers to me. I guess I needed the normalcy of the fight. The cleaning of the slate so to speak. Nuts, eh?" on 15:38:16 10/26/07 Fri

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Jamie pulled his punch. As much as I love John I don't think he could have dodged the fist of our enraged Scot did he really mean to do damage. Jamie said nothing more than necessary to him onthe way to Helwater and hasn't said more than was required or directly asked since. I think he's been there maybe two or three years? John had been home for a while in PM then spent a season in Germany during the events of Succubus. Olivia has been married to Stubbs at least 9 months. (NT) -- kgp, 17:07:32 10/26/07 Fri

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