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Thursday, June 04, 11:52:02

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• eeep, that other bit was meant to be inside! Silly wench. Double eep! I cannot spell! (NT) -- Oleander, 06:35:07 09/11/07 Tue
  

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• I wondered if we'll "see" more of Stephen over the years - somehow - as i feel that we'll see more of Percy over the years. (NT) -- GwenM, 08:22:13 09/11/07 Tue
  • I hope so! But then I look ahead to John going to the colonies and wonder...how did that happen? What will happen to his relationships in Europe? (NT) -- Oleander, 08:25:00 09/11/07 Tue
    • And will Lord John even stay in America? Remember, he's on the "wrong" side of the war, at least as of the end of ABOSAA. I wonder if he'll choose to go back to England? (NT) -- Karen, 08:35:36 09/11/07 Tue
      • Well, when the war ends, John and Percy and Stephen can run away to Canada. hahahaha (NT) -- GwenM, 08:39:42 09/11/07 Tue
        • As much as I would like to see more Percy, on a serious note, I am not sure that I would be able to see John and Percy resume their love affair- whether or not John was able to love Percy, or show his love or anything, Percy betrayed John and made one hell of a mess in the process. Would John really want to go back there? (NT) -- Oleander, 08:48:31 09/11/07 Tue
          • "Betrayed" is a pretty strong term for it. I don't think he meant to do that. (NT) -- sharon fisher, 08:03:45 09/23/07 Sun
            • Bretrayed is a strong word, it is also the title of that chapter. :) (NT) -- stillcleaning, 11:28:05 10/03/07 Wed
  
  

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• Such interesting questions, Oleander. Thank you for launching such good discussions here! I think I need to re-read the other stories to get a better sense of Stephan. In this book, there is clearly some sexual tension, and even the description of him with his horses (through John's eyes) is kinda sexy (there's just always that horse thing going on for DG's characters...Don't you think John's thinking something like, "if I were a horse I'd let him ride me anywhere..." *BG*). But about Percy, I guess I have to say I hope he's not The One, for John, and at this point it doesn;t feel to me like he is. The line that sticks with me the most is when John says that he knows he could never again trust Percy, not in terms of sexual fidelity, but just in terms of telling the truth about his various connections, and how involved he is with men who are less than honorable. To my mind, Percy just isn't John's Claire, and John deserves his own Claire (the male equivalent, obviously *g*). (NT) -- pamelalass, 10:51:13 09/11/07 Tue
  • Pamelass- that exact line appears in Outlander, when Jaime is comforting Claire who is crying over Frank! (NT) -- Oleander, 11:42:42 09/11/07 Tue
    • I know! I was being verra silly. I tend to find myself quoting that line with great frequency around here, as it's one of my favorites... I was chuckling to myself to think of it in this new context. (NT) -- pamelalass, 13:59:17 09/11/07 Tue
      • LOL , I do that kind of stuff all the time. I read like a crazy fiend and find myself quoting random books all the time. People are always looking at me like "eh?" (NT) -- Oleander, 14:01:32 09/11/07 Tue
        • I am reacting to your "eh" when I ought to be pondering your intelligent and provocative questions, Oleander. Are you a Canadian too??? (the "eh" is a clue!) (NT) -- CatherineM., 16:20:15 09/11/07 Tue
          • that's funny bout 'eh'! other ppl notice me saying it more than i do myself. i never even think about it really. (NT) -- oojanie, 18:24:57 09/11/07 Tue
            • And where are you from, oorjanie? (You really are "oors", aren't you!) (NT) -- CatherineM., 17:49:25 09/12/07 Wed
              • certainly, all y-oors, hehehe! i live in BC now but was born in scotland. moved to canada when i was a wee lass of 2 yrs. (NT) -- oorjanie, 20:45:57 09/12/07 Wed
          • LOL no, I live in Michigan but was raised around the world. I say "eh" like a Canadian and "ya'll" like a Southerner...go figure! (NT) -- Oleander, 05:43:57 09/12/07 Wed
            • Verra versatile, Lass! (NT) -- CatherineM., 17:48:14 09/12/07 Wed
            • Hi Oleander, I was born and raised in Michigan, most of my family is still there. I moved to California in 1982 when I was 24. My husband is a CA native, I doubt we'll ever leave here. (NT) -- Jane, 09:50:45 09/15/07 Sat
  • RE Percy being the one- I didn't see him being the one. This is a line of thought that makes me sad for John. He seems to have little luck in love- Hector, Jaime, Percy- will John ever find his Claire? If not his Claire, then at least a partner with whom he can share his life and love? (NT) -- Oleander, 11:50:34 09/11/07 Tue
    • Percy (blech!) -- Bedelia, 12:43:16 09/11/07 Tue
    • I have wondered on this too, Oleander. Sadly, I fear that John will not find it. (NT) -- teddie, 12:48:29 09/11/07 Tue
    • I'm sorry to say I think Stephan has too many responsibilities that will surely keep him in Europe (wife, children, properties to manage, politics) Now, if he hadn't lost his arm he might come with the Hessian troops to fight along with the British during the revolution, but without that excuse to get away, I doubt he will be coming... sigh. I've been dying for John to find true love for years, but I'm guessing it's good for the plot to keep him alone and aching for Jamie. That leaves all of us aching for him. (NT) -- Jane, 19:34:01 09/11/07 Tue
  • Pamelalass, I agree that Percy is not the one, and John seems to be very much aware of that too. He does acknowledge that he cannot trust Percy; and for me, the final, beautifully written paragraph of the book had such a sense of bittersweet finality. (NT) -- teddie (), 12:44:13 09/11/07 Tue
    • I agree- that final paragraph was heartbreaking in its finality. (NT) -- Oleander, 13:59:01 09/11/07 Tue
  
  

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• Oleander, thank you for posting this question. I have thinking about Stephan, and wondering if I missed something about his relationship with Lord John in LJATPM, They have a deep bond of friendship, and something more. Hmmm...might Stephan be the one for John, after all? (NT) -- teddie, 13:11:08 09/11/07 Tue
  • Well, I certainly like him best so far, since John can't have Jamie! He also strikes me as a man Jamie would like/respect, and I think that John may always have "what would Fraser think?" in the back of his mind, as kind of a touchstone, akin to his thinking about whether Hector would approve of Percy. A man with whom John might consider something more lasting would have to meet the "Fraser honor code" litmus test, and be a man of strength and purpose in his own right. Stephan might fit....and it's sure fun to speculate! (NT) -- pamelalass, 14:08:17 09/11/07 Tue
    • I like Stephan myself -- I see John as a tragic (or at least potentially tragic) figure, whose impossible love for Jamie may prevent him from giving himself fully to another person, but I hope I am wrong and Stephan might be The One . . . I do love Gustav, his dachsund, and I am hoping that in the course of the breeding project, LJ will get a pup from a subsequent litter for Willie! Don't you think every boy needs a dog? (NT) -- CatherineM., 16:25:46 09/11/07 Tue
      • Well, this is completely off-topic, but your thought about John's "impossible love for Jamie [that] may prevent him from giving himself fully to [or ever finding!] another person" just made me snort and smile in chagrin as I think it could also describe a single hoser, like myself... *BG* I love Jamie, but he's just so wildly impossible! (NT) -- pamelalass, 18:02:14 09/11/07 Tue
        • Ha! I thought you meant my dog comment was off-topic, which would have been uncharacteristically censorious of you, Pamela, being the generous reader/listener that you are! Then I realized you were talking about your self-revelation there (). Did you ever read Anne Brontes's The Tenant of Wildfell Hall? The male character courts his love (a single mom) by giving her kid a pup, which of course softens her heart . . . I want to see LJ give Isobel and Willie a dachshund pup! (Actually, that exchange might bring LJ and Stephan closer together too. . . hmmm . . .) (NT) -- CatherineM., 18:36:49 09/11/07 Tue
          • Too funny, Cathy. I meant, of course, that my silly comment was off-topic, the topic at hand being dachsunds and the men/boys who have or should have them. I was convoluted, but hopefully never censorious! *g* And I agree, Gus and/or his progeny must have a future in the Books. I do remember that from Wildfell Hall - - and thank you for reminding me about that book! (NT) -- pamelalass, 20:50:49 09/11/07 Tue
        • Pamelalass are there two of you? Or am I just confused? (NT) -- Oleander, 05:51:57 09/12/07 Wed
          • No, it is I who was being confusing! Cathy's comment made me laugh, because, like dear Lord John, I am single, and harbor an "impossible love for Jamie" against which reality [eg. real men] tends to pale in comparison. ; ) (NT) -- pamelalass, 06:39:01 09/12/07 Wed
            • LOL...actually what I meant is that I noticed a pamelass posted above who is not logged in or something, and then you- does that make sense? And of course, don't we all harbour an impossibel love for Jaime? (Come to think of it, with my strange crush, and impossible love for John as well. Would that I could be the bridge between the two!) (NT) -- Oleander, 07:20:25 09/12/07 Wed
              • hahaha I'm trying to picture THAT. (NT) -- GwenM, 07:58:40 09/12/07 Wed
  
  

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• I thought there was a familiarity of Stephan that I couldn't understand - I haven't read Succubus yet. I am looking forward to all the Lord John stories being published, so that I can read them in chronological order. Anyone else having trouble with the out-of-order thing? (NT) -- LissC, 14:20:14 09/11/07 Tue
  • i am looking foward to that, yes. And I only read Hellfire once, so I cannot wait. Sorry if I spoiled that for you! (NT) -- Oleander, 14:59:38 09/11/07 Tue
    • No, not at all! I am usually pretty spoiler phobic, but not with LJ for some reason. I think it is because it is occuring in a timeline we've already read, if that makes any sense. (NT) -- LissC, 17:25:51 09/11/07 Tue
  
  

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• LJG and Stephan -- Lady Cate, 04:29:53 09/12/07 Wed
  • Oops -sorry- my first post on this board - to see message, click above (NT) -- Lady Cate, 04:32:32 09/12/07 Wed
    • First post?! Thank goodness you're here -- you raise such good points! Somehow I had allowed myself to conveniently forget that Stephan is married. Of course John is going to be married, too, and then widowed, and he's only 28 here, so there's a lifetime of possibility ahead. At least that's what I'll think to keep my new little John/Stephan fantasy going for now -- *G* -- Stephan can't get his arm back, but lots of other things could change... (NT) -- pamelalass, 06:34:51 09/12/07 Wed
  • Lady Cate...you raise some excellent points --as much as I'd love to see Lord John find happiness, I think you are correct that his sense of honor would prevent him from seeking a life with a married man... (NT) -- teddie, 05:17:24 09/12/07 Wed
    • Lady Cate, what fantastic insight. Really brings a whole new light to that final line when John is with Stephan- something about how acknowledging Stephans desire would be the undoing of him (Stephan). As an honourable man and as a friend, John seems to respect in this instance that to move forward on any desire felt between them would be a tragic disaster- and of course, John knows only too well what a misplaced or inappropriate pass can lead to- the loss of a very good friendship (since his relationship with Jaime is yet unhealed at this point.) (NT) -- Oleander, 05:50:15 09/12/07 Wed