Re: A few thoughts -- Welcome to the II Chatboard

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Subject: Re: A few thoughts

Author:
Jessie

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Date Posted: 02:50:54 09/02/04 Thu
In reply to: DJ 's message, "A few Thoughts" on 11:00:41 08/29/04 Sun

I agree--- there shoud be single orientation and mixed classes available to cater to everyone's desire. But in response to the posts that say "staying is the high road" and "mixed allows us to overcome resistance"--- I would simply like to point out that what all of these instances (where people have chosen to walk out or to stay) have in common is that they all involve lesbian woman--- Lesbian women who "should" integrate themselves into a heterosexual environment, and partner with a men. However, all of the men making these comments admit that "if there were two gay men, I know that it would be a challenge for me." No one is suggesting that each man who writes this go and find a course that has gay men in it, or explore being with a man. If they have this "resistance," shouldn't they be working through it? Because, every time a lesbian opts out of being in a course with men, or partnering with a man, she is told she is "resisting" and should "work through it." Is this not a double standard?

I am so adamant about my views on this because I have been through a lifetime of people trying to incorporate me into the heterosexual world, and I have often allowed them to do this to me because I want to be "nice" and "accomodating." I am proud of myself for getting up and leaving because it showed that I had gained the strength to stand up and say that is not what I want--- I don't need to change who I am to make things easy for everyone else--- (because I should not have to). I should be able to find a safe space that caters to my desire. That is why I love that Nicole and Elana are going to start a women's only cirlce. Too bad I'll be in Chicago.

In response to the lesbian that you said you had a date with. It was asked in our course if it is plausable for two straight men to have a do date with one another. Nicole said that was unlikely--- in order for two men to have a do date, they would likely be at least a little bit bisexual. I don't mean to disagree with anyone's own view of their sexual orientation, but I would suggest that if you had a pleasurable date with this woman, she is probably at least a little bit bisexual. I can't think of a single lesbian I know (and I know a lot of lesbians) who would participate in a sexual act with a man. I have a little resentment around this topic because, despite being very clear about my sexual orientation, I've had men in this community ask me for dates, saying that it would benefit me. In all honesty, I find that offensive because it is a clear sign that they are not respecting my sexual orientation. And when women try to push me to have dates with men, that's even worse, because I like to think that, as women, we look out for each other's interests. I think these actions are sparked by a silly myth that men are either gay or straight and women are bisexual. Not true. And it's very hard when people think that because I'm a woman, my sexuality is somehow fluid, and I could like a man if I wanted to. Also not true. And if I'm attracted to women, why would I want to be attracted to men anyway? I just wish that everyone's sensual/sexual preferences and desires could be respected. I want sensuality to be fun--- this kind of conversation takes that fun away. It gets me a bit upset because it feels like everyone is (once again) trying to push something on me that I don't want, and then blaming my lack of desire on some elusive "resistance" that I don't have--- if you haven't experienced someone trying to push you into a category/situation that you don't belong in, then you don't know how terrible it feels. And you may think that you are the "token straight" in a gay area, but I can guarantee you, 100%, that is not true. If you live on the intersection of Castro and Market (the gayest place on Earth), then you are in a neighborhood that is 20% gay, and 80% straight. You think that the billboards are all men kissing men, women kissing women, because in a heterosexual society, you are bound to notice those things that deviate from the norm. I can guarantee you that you pass by ten times as many straight billboards, and don't notice them because they seem commonplace.

But making any kind of arguement (even one that seems as obvious as this)--- is extremely difficult when you're one woman fighting against an entire group of people--- none the less, a group of people who think they know what's best for you--- and won't listen when you try to tell them what you want--- even when that is the name of the game!!! It feels very condescending. It feels as though no one is seeing me for who I am, but rather seeing me as they want to see me--- as some man-hating lesbian (and calling me a "dyke," which is NOT an okay word in my dictionary). That picture is just so far from the truth--- I went to Good Vibrations with my male friend today and showed him a book called "The Art of Felatio," and told him to buy it to "aid" him and his boyfriend. I have no problem with male sensuality. I do however have a problem when male sensuality is forced on me. I was totally fine with the mixed course until I was confronted about my decision to leave the room for the male demo--- when anger from the men (and the straight women) was directed at me, and I was told that I was "rejecting" the men and that was "wrong" and "weak." That made me feel as though I was being told that I needed to accept male sensuality that was directed at me. That is what I had a problem with. That is different from heterosexual couples exploring their sensuality with one another around me--- I have no problem with that. Does this distinction make sense?

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Replies:

Subject	Author	Date
Let it be	Suz	08:56:04 09/02/04 Thu