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Date Posted: 11:25:09 12/19/04 Sun
Author: H - 30 Nov 2004
Subject: Re: Kriya Yoga and Surat Shabd
In reply to: chris - 28 Nov 2004 's message, "Re: Kriya Yoga and Surat Shabd" on 11:24:08 12/19/04 Sun


I do not know much from Nisargadatta, hence cannot judge.

I like Nisargadatta and Balsekar better than most of the Western teachers of the same school and some others in India. Because when I read them they appear to me playing with the mind rather than preaching ultimate truths that sound like dogma. That is fine, revealing, and they have a good humour.

Below an excerpt from the book by R. Vernon on J. Krishnamurti which deals with his way of teaching. Reading this I wonder whether Shibendu and JK are twin brothers.

H


Krishnamurti's impatience with audiences and individuals who seemed to be missing his point or questioning his assertions earned him a reputation as something of a martinet. After so many years surrounded by an inner circle, like a monarch attended by his courtiers who adored him and believed he could do no wrong, he had grown unused to being contradicted. He could at times be overly authoritarian which, again, was inconsistent in one who denounced authority and upheld the virtues of open discussion. His recorded dialogues, though purportedly a melting pot for the ideas of all participants, invariably became a showcase for Krishnamurti's point of view, to which other interlocutors would happily defer; or object, at their peril. The unusual pattern was to begin with generalisations, the whole group contributing, before the discussion became more specifically centred on one of Krishnamurti's favourite themes. Then one can witness a gradual increase in tension as the teacher's conviction mounts. It is compelling to watch such unshakeable assurance. He becomes forceful and, although still inviting the opinions of others, is prone to passionate interruptions, at times hardly listening to what another has said. An eventual pause is achieved, either through the force of his argument or the intimidation of other participants, and Krishnamurti backs off calmly, half closes his eyes, and pronounces his conclusions in an oracular style. This technique, and the rather bullying way in which he was occasionally seen to treat his audiences, leads sceptics to believe that this so-called exponent of spiritual freedom was in reality an arch dogmatist. He had learnt from Annie Besant, they would say, that incontrovertibility was the most effective form of dissemination.

These criticisms made little difference to those who claimed to benefit from his teachings. The water tasted good, the words seemed to make sense; and when they did not, there was always the extraordinary presence of the teacher, which, even if no words were spoken, would have been sufficient for many to have departed his gatherings with a sense of benediction. This explains why many of the same group returned again and again, or followed him around the world. It was not that his message or themes were any different from talk to talk; indeed, there was an inevitable degree of repetition. The invigoration came through the sharing of space and time with the guru (darshan), an experience that appeared to equip his followers to live better lives.

It was a natural consequence of such devotion that these followers should have remained blind to any hint of deficiency in Krishnamurti or his teachings. They were unperturbed by his sweeping denunciations of all teachers, philosophies and methods of education other than his own. They were not disquieted by his derision of books as useful for spiritual growth, while allowing many to be published in his own name. And they ignored the most glaring contradiction of them all, at the core of his message - that a theoretical argument cannot help one attain a state of non-thought, because both the argument and the notion of non-thought are in themselves the product of thought. It is a self-defeating enterprise. Krishnamurti endlessly repeated that 'the word is not the thing,' that his talks and teachings could not be the tool to bring about an individual's realisation of truth; and yet his whole life was dedicated to giving talks, haranguing crowds and spreading 'the word'. U.G. once confronted him on the issue, demanding that he, 'Come clean for once.' Krishnamurti replied, 'You have no way of knowing it,' to which U.G. characteristically retorted, 'If I have no way of knowing it and you have no way of communicating it, what the hell have we been doing! I have wasted seven years listening to you.' Those followers who claim a faultlessness, in terms of both theory and applicability in Krishnamurti's teachings, have succeeded somehow in fitting the square peg in a round hole. They ingeniously excuse the contradictions as being the product of Krishnamurti's enigmatic status. He belonged to a superior order of beings for whom the normal rules of logic, analysis and morality do not apply. It is in the upholding of such unanswerable tenets that a minority of Krishnamurti followers share a devotional language with the disciples of more stereotypical gurus; and the fierce defensiveness with which they close ranks to protect Krishnamurti's reputation merely contributes to the resemblance.

-- Roland Vernon, Star in the East, pp. 258-60

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