Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your
contribution is not tax-deductible.)
PayPal Acct: 
Feedback: 
Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):
| [ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, [4] ] |
| Subject: Re: If you can come up with ONE PROOF God exists .... | |
Author: MARS Attacks! | [ Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
] Date Posted: 18:17:14 12/20/04 Mon In reply to: QUITTNER 's message, "Re: If you can come up with ONE PROOF God exists ...." on 11:49:27 11/15/04 Mon WOW ! YOU ARE UNBELIEVABLY STUPID. THIS REPLY IS EVEN MORE STUPID THAT ANY REPLY I THOUGHT I WOULD GET. MAYBE I SHOULD START LOOKING FOR THAT POT OF GOLD THE LEPRECHAUNS ARE HIDING...LOL [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: Re: If you can come up with ONE PROOF God exists .... | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:37:01 12/23/04 Thu I don't think there is any way to prove to a diehard skeptic that God exists. If you're looking for a sudden, global miracle or unrefutable scientific data, you're not going to find it. I used to ponder God's existence myself, asking for just such a sign of proof. But (as I later discovered) through God's persistence on my open mind, I found the answers I was looking for. Belief in God is based on faith, just like one needs faith in order to believe in evolution or aliens from outer space. But I don't think you can have that kind of faith until you open your mind and realy start listening to what God has to say. What brought me to God was first studying the intricacies of the universe itself, from the incomprehensible complexity of a strand of DNA... to the physics-defying retrograde rotation of some planets... to the fact that evolution is also a non-provable, faith-based religion, and that evolution is so widely accepted because of man's nature to want to be the masters of their own destiny rather than a product of creation by a high power they must face someday. I opened up my mind, and eventually turned from an evolutioninst to a creationist. There is no doubt in my mind whatesover that our life on earth and all of the complex, life-supporting systems (the water cycle, transpiration, solar radiation, the ozone layer, the magnetosphere, cell division and replication, reproduction of plants and animals, etc.) that sustain us were divinely created to work in harmony. Then I started learning the Bible as taught by those who use creation science in their ministries. It was then when all of the puzzle pieces started coming together, and all of my questions were answered: Who is God? Why do we suffer and die? Why were/are Christians persecuted? Why do people scoff at God's existence? etc. The Bible teaches everything one needs to know about who the creator is, what He does, what He did, and what He will do. I used to be a liberal-thinking, hardcore evolutionist. But by the grace of God my scientific mind was open enough to hear what had to be said about creation. And I was intrigued right down to my very core when I realized how much the Bible makes sense in explaining our habitat, our origin, our lives, and our future. I'll be the first to admit that the Bible is a lot of boring reading, too, and that I am far from being an ideal Christian. But I am certainly no longer the person I was. In November, I voted Republican for the first time based solely on the moral issues in the presidential election. I still love science, but I don't believe in evolution or in an earth that is 4.6 billion years old. And one thing I am quite proud of is that when people ask me why I don't believe in evolution, I am willing to share with them all that I have shared with you today... hoping that their minds will be open enough to receive information that can change their lives just as it has changed mine. But most importantly, I admitted my sins to God and asked that I be saved through the sacrifice of his Son, Jesus. This is the ONLY way to be saved from eternal separation from your creator, and He makes that plainly clear. I hope someday soon, very soon, you will do the same. But if it seems like that's the last thing you'd care to do right now, then at least open your mind up as much as you can whenever you hear God's word being spoken. That's not too much to ask of you or anyone. Listen for God's word everywhere. Listen to your conscience when it begs you to ponder all the possibilities of your existence. This is what eventually led me to Christ. It took a long time to transform this brazen skeptic into a Christian, but I'll tell you one thing for sure... I'll always be a Christian, because when you accept Jesus as your savior, you realize how much more there is to life than paying taxes and dying. Tom |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If you can come up with ONE PROOF God exists .... | |
|
Author: MARS Attacks! [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 02:39:44 12/24/04 Fri BOY I THOUGHT THE LAST REPLY WAS DUMB. I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU ABOUT EVOLUTION...IT IS PRETTY MUCH PROVEN AS MUCH OF A FACT AS A FACT CAN BE WITH ROCK SOLID EVIDENCE: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/misconceps/IIFnotscience.shtml |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If you can come up with ONE PROOF God exists .... | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22:38:34 12/24/04 Fri Mars, First of all, referring to my heartfelt reply as "dumb" is disrespectful. I will continue to show professional courtesy and respect toward you, and I ask that you do the same. Micro evolution and genetic mutation is not the same as the evolution that preaches humans evolved from organic sludge. That kind of evolution would require that new genetic material be physically written into DNA, and genetic mutation is just the manifestation of genetic material that is already present in DNA. And not only are mutations never constructive, a dog born with five legs is still a dog, and will always bear dog descendants, and some of those descendants will have mutations, but they will always be dogs. Also, if evolution were true, then a VAST quantity of the fossils found in museums and collections today would need to be of intermediary species. All of the fossils we have today are either of species that still exist today, or of species that are extinct. Once in a great while a fossil of an undocumented, extinct species is found that appears like it could have some intermediary characteristics, but to spout evolution from that one discovery is like witnessing a robin building a nest in a tree and then assuming that birds build trees. Many of the most respected evolutionists will concede that we still don't have any missing link fossils, whereas in order to support the idea that we evolved from organic slime, we should have an abundance of them. Mars, a couple years ago I was exactly where you are now. I was a diehard evolutionist, because, by golly, if evolution was being taught in science textbooks and plastered thoughout the media, then it must be true! I blindly accepted evolution because I loved (and still love) science. Even the most influential evolutionists still wonder where the matter came from that created their "Big Bang." Some simply resort to saying it was divinely created by the apparent god of the universe that they've decided to believe in. But for many others, it's still an unanswered question. I, too, had several unanswered questions. Maybe you have one or two yourself? Mars, this whole board could easily turn into another Creation vs. Evolution debate, but I don't want to go there because that is such a hackneyed topic, and I could spout scientific creation facts until I am blue in the face. But it's not up to me what you do with your life, and I accept that fact that I cannot change your heart or the way you think. It's not my place to do that. I just hope that what I have shared with you will lead you to think, even if just for one minute, about the kind of power it took to bring a diehard evolutionist to his knees in repentance of his sins. All the best to you, -Tom |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: The ONE PROOF IS You are fighting something | |
|
Author: God hating loon! [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 12:30:36 02/04/05 Fri that supposedly "don't exist" and you atheists never attack other religions and never say the devil don't exist! THAT'S THE PROOF!!!! |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Neither Creationists nor Evolutionists have PROOFS. | |
|
Author: QUITTNER [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 11:17:09 04/08/05 Fri Nobody can explain what happened before God existed. Nobody can explain where the huge energy came from that they say was present at BIG BANG time. We know that Darwin found slightly changed species on the Galápagos Islands. Was that, or was it not, evidence that evolution happened? Maybe there was a combination of Creation and evolution, both? ..... Anyway, it's not at all important. Do come up instead with solutions to poverty and epidemics, for examples. And God may, or may not, be involved. If he/she/it is, then God must be blamed for everything that is wrong, and even murderers will be able to say that it's God's fault, or that they only did what God wanted them to do. |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Neither Creationists nor Evolutionists have PROOFS. | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:39:30 05/16/05 Mon Quittner, your answer is very typical of people who have not yet come to know the Lord. Two years ago, I would have written a nearly identical post to yours. But getting to know God is not an overnight event. It took some time for me, as it does for most people. Living in faith is a lifelong process. To say that "nobody can explain" based on evidence is right, because nobody currently living on earth was around when the earth was created. The only documented origin of the universe is in the Bible. If you believe in God, then you must believe in the Bible because you know it was written by the Holy Spirit. And if you believe in the Bible, then you must believe everything in it (because if you doubt any part of it, then you might as well doubt all of it, ergo, call God a liar.) In the Bible, God tells you how and when the universe was created, and how the expansive heavens reflect the majesty of his handiwork. God also mentions the foolishness of trying to come up with other excuses for the universe's existence. There are a lot of people who pick and choose what about God they want to believe in. This is so, so, so wrong, and very dangerous. People MUST refer to the Bible in order to know God, otherwise they'll easily become brainwashed by the theory of evolution and all of man's laws which contradict the Bible's teachings. So many people start their description of God with "Well, to me, God is...." That's wrong, because God is who He is, period. God is the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Moses. He is the creator of all things seen and unseen. The ONLY way you can ever be with God is through faith in Jesus, repenting of your sins, and accepting Jesus' death as punishment for your sins. This same God wrote many rules by which to live. One of those rules is not to make of God any graven image. When you pick and choose who God is to you and form your own rules for getting into heaven, you are not only breaking his law, but you are also headed for eternal separation from Him. All of this, and everything you need to know about God, is in the Bible. I used to pass off the Bible as just another outdated, religious document. But when you open up your heart and let the Holy Spirit in, you come to realize how perfectly applicable the Bible is to everyone on earth from now until the end of time. Quittner, take an ant for example. It knows when a route to a food source has been blocked by an obstacle, but do you think it has any clue as to what the obstact is? Do you think an ant knows the difference between a P22575R16 tire from a Chevy Cavalier and a P22565R15 tire from a Chevy Lumina blocking his path? Of course not. It's way outside the scope of the ant's intelligence. Isn't it possible that we have limits to our intelligence, and we are foolishly blaming those limits instead of taking the effort to know and understand our creator? When you start saying things like God isn't doing things they way a perfect god should, or that God may be a she, or that God probably used evolution, etc., you're making assumptions based on the limits of your current state of intelligence. When I opened my heart to God, I humbled myself so that I could comprehend His word, especially since it went against a lot of what I was taught in school. Only when I did that, did the universe, its origin, my life, and my future make sense to me. I pray that others, like you, will experience this same path. Jesus said, "I am the the way..." He wasn't kiddin'. I was once a diehard evolutionist. I am now living proof that you, Quittner, and others like you the person I used to be can be saved by the power and grace of our creator. -Tom |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Communications with God. | |
|
Author: QUITTNER [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 11:05:09 07/25/05 Mon Tom: Those who REALLY are in communication with God no longer need any religious texts, not even the bibles that are translations of what may have been at one time messages from God to some of those who were unable to communicate directly with God. ..... And communications from God are in the language of the persons concerned, no translations are needed. |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Communications with God. | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:01:51 07/25/05 Mon Actually, those who are in communication with God do read the Bible, because that is how God communicates with us. We, in turn, talk to Him through prayer. That is how we come to know the Lord, and respectively, how the Lord comes to know us. I think one of the most meaningful things we can ask of the Lord when we pray is for knowledge and understanding through His word. |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Communications with God. | |
|
Author: QUITTNER [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 11:11:48 07/26/05 Tue Tom, many have been excommunicated, or have excommunicated themselves; they have no personal communication direct with God, and they therefore read out-of-date writings with messages that they pick and choose to obey or not to obey. Some people's prayers are probably just as effective as reading from the local telephone directory (there's a lot of truth in it!) |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Communications with God. | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 00:59:11 07/27/05 Wed Have you ever written a letter to the president of a corporation or large business? Chances are it was pretty straighforward. In fact you can even download business form and letter templates online in which most of the writing is done for you; all you have to do is fill in the proper names and dates. Now compare that to a heartfelt love letter you wrote to your wife on your 25th wedding anniversary. You'd have to admit that such a letter would take on quite a different tone, right? * Some people pray to the God they learned about as a child, but only during times of emotional crisis. * Some people pray to God quite often, but only ask to win the lottery. * Some people pray to God every night and ask for "world peace" and "an end to hunger" and then rip through the Lord's prayer in under ten seconds. * But there are those who know the Lord through His word and talk to him often in private. They share their innermost thoughts, fears, and hopes. They ask God to show them His glory, for understanding of His word, and for mercy on those who are ailing physically and/or spiritually. They pray from the depths of their hearts to their savior, knowing that He is hearing every word. For the last mentioned people, their prayers are as personal as love letters, especially because they know exactly who is receiving their prayers. They know that the God who created the universe... who led His people out of Egypt... who died on the cross to give us a path to salvation... who will come again to reign forever on a new earth... is the God who is hearing their prayers. To these people, the Bible is everything they need to know about living on earth and in heaven. For the first mentioned people, some are praying with little hope, often as a last ditch effort to achieve a miracle. Or they might be repetitively praying something they learned as a child and are too superstitious to change their prayer style. These are the kind of people whose concept of God and His works are formed more by watching Joan of Arcadia or Touched By an Angel rather than by reading His own words. To these people, the Bible may seem like nothing but an out-of-date religious text. Not long ago, that's what it was for me, too. I did what way too many people do... I formed my God based partially on the Bible and what I knew about God as a child, and the rest on the limits of my knowledge, my common sense, and my conscience. Yes, He led his people out of Egypt... but I also believed he formed the universe over billions of years, automatically takes helpful people to heaven and sends murderers to hell, is lenient about small sins like telling white lies and occasional cussing, and communicates to us in mysterious ways like potato chips crudely shaped like the Virgin Mary. Over time, I learned more about the Lord... much more than I could have ever imagined learning. But even knowing the Lord through His own words, I have far, far to go. My faith is weak by any standards. But growing in the Lord is a lifelong process. The key to starting this new life is to start NOW, and the key to maintaining this life is to renew your faith in Him though prayer, finding a good church or teacher, and reading the Bible. Tom |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Communications with God. | |
|
Author: QUITTNER [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 10:52:43 07/28/05 Thu Tom, all over the globe there are people who have communications with somebody or something. But they have been influenced by what belief system(s) they were taught, and are being taught, and there are very many of these systems, with all sorts of sales literature attached to attract to them many more believers. ..... What is important is NOT what people "believe", but what their behavior is, whether they OBEY their "inner voice", or God, or Jesus, or Allah, or some Lord, or whoever. What is the "worst case" of a whole group of "believers? ..... Compare with, for example, the many Moslems in their mosques. They think they OBEY Allah. but what is their individual behavior? Of the "worst" of them? Are they actually doing what God wants? Or what clergy wants? Or (whatever)? What incentives are they given (by whom?) to do what they are doing? ..... Compare with the "believers" of one of the many versions of Christianity that they think is the Christianity of Jesus. But is it? |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Communications with God. | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:53:45 07/28/05 Thu >"What is important is NOT what people "believe", but what their behavior is..." This is extremely dangerous thinking, because it implies that good deeds will get one into heaven. So many people believe this, because on a human level, it makes sense that good deeds are rewarded. Yes, God does bless those those who live according to His laws, but that alone will not get one into heaven. Because God is divine and perfect, the only way any man can gain entrance into His kingdom is to be perfect and sinless also. Because we are all sinners, we are all doomed to die. But God is merciful and sacrificed his Son, that if we BELIEVE in Him, repent of our sins, and accept His death as punishment for our sins, we will be made perfect and sinless. The important thing is to believe, which is why I capitalized it above. Our behavior is only a reflection of the strength of our faith. We ought to behave according to God's teachings, but do so knowing that it is our belief and faith in God alone that will lead us to eternal life. Tom |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Communications with clergy | |
|
Author: QUITTNER [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 09:17:40 07/29/05 Fri Tom, you are not communicating with God at all, only with a particular group of clergy, their unproven stories and unauthorized, garbled version of what they call Christianity; they apparently got you brain-washed. Are they getting a lot of your money too? |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Communications with clergy | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 11:08:15 07/30/05 Sat Please don't lump all Christian religions into one, stereotypical barrel of bad apples. I follow the Bible and its teachings, and do not partake in any man-devised rituals not taught in the Bible. I am not a Catholic. In fact I am not officially any one religion. I believe in the Bible, period. I donate money to a couple of organizations that also teach the Bible as the literal word of God. They never asked me for it. However, my money belongs to God anyway. Everything I own belongs to God. Yet, all God asks for is ten percent. Shamefully, I admit I don't even give Him that. I thought you were a strugling believer, Quittner. I did not know you were an established scoffer of the Bible. I apologize for offending you if I did. All I can say is this... Just a couple of years ago, I was the most staunch skeptic I ever knew. I thought the Bible was just another religious text. I thought all churches were a waste of time and money, and if a creator existed, he (or she) might not have anything to do with the Bible or any other religious text. The earth was 4.6 billion years old, we probably evolved from chimpanzees, and we should just all live life to the fullest and hope we go to some mysterious "better place" when we die. I also looked upon believers as being just a little "out there" and even shyed away from dating church-going women. But every skeptic always has questions left unanswered. Every skeptic makes a decision not to believe in something, but not many would literally bet their life on what they don't know for certain. All it takes is to make some room in your heart to listen. But you must listen with an open mind. Immature skeptics often make the mistake of shutting out the rest of the world just so that they can hear their own opinions better. They choose to wallow in uncertainty because they are afraid of seeming a little "out there" if what they are hearing starts making sense to them. I listened to people who taught the Bible straight from the Bible. They didn't tell anyone to recite a gazillion Hail Marys, drink holy water, or send in their social security checks. They believe in the Bible, the messages therein, and serve the Lord by bringing others the good news of salvation. They teach what it means to live a good Christian life for the Lord. I could hardly believe how changed of a person I was becoming, but then I learned that it is not men who change men, but it is the Holy Spirit who performs that miracle. Quittner, what would it take for your life to be transformed the same, exact way mine has? A miracle, perhaps? Tom |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: MONEY, MONEY, MONEY! | |
|
Author: QUITTNER [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 11:25:37 08/02/05 Tue Tom, some(?) belief systems only seem to exist for the purpose of collecting money, lots of money, from gullible believers of their sales literature and preachings. These believers do NOT do it for God - God doesn't need them at all! ..... Think, for examples, of all the money that has been collected ever since bibles existed! Or since churches existed! Or since pilgrimages were invented! Or since religious articles were for sale! Calculate what all of this money would be worth in year 2005 currency, adjusted for inflation! |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: MONEY, MONEY, MONEY! | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 00:04:51 08/03/05 Wed You're absolutely right, Quittner. It's a shame that some people knowingly scam people out of their hard-earned money by claiming to be servants of the Lord. Some belief systems probably do exist just for this purpose, such as various cults. (After all, some cults exist for much worse purposes.) It is because man is wicked. And some people (by man's standards) are so ultimately wicked they do nothing but think of ways to scam people out of their money. Some do it by claiming the money will be used for God's work. Some do it by soliciting donations for a make-believe charities. Some choose life-threatening methods such as armed robbery. It's important to know where your donations are going. God does ask for ten percent, and I've heard from more than one minister that your tithe should go first and formost to the church you attend. But ultimately God knows what is in your heart, and where & why you give as much as you do. Those who tithe with love and obedience in their hearts receive special blessings from the Lord. Of course, the key is knowing that's true because the Lord has said it... not because Reverend Thickwallet is soliciting for donations. Tom |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: MONEY, MONEY, MONEY! | |
|
Author: QUITTNER [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 08:37:42 08/04/05 Thu Tom, tithing is taxation. You think that God asked for that? Prove it! |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: MONEY, MONEY, MONEY! | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:28:56 08/04/05 Thu Tithe means "tenth". Leviticus 27:30 "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's. It is holy to the Lord." Leviticus 27:32 "And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord." Malachi 3:8 "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings." Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." 2 Corinthians 9:7 "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." But, Quittner, if you do not hold the Bible as the literal, inerrant word of God, none of this will mean anything to you. Tom |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Only the writers' opinions, not God's | |
|
Author: QUITTNER [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 08:53:33 08/05/05 Fri Tom, you wrote: >>> ... if you do not hold the Bible as the literal, inerrant word of God, none of this will mean anything to you. <<< ..... No, the bible is a collection of a number of books, arbitrarily selected by a committee for use in churches many years ago, representing only their writers, not God. God doesn't need writers to do any writings for him, nor are translations needed for any of God's communications. ..... The churches wanted 10% taxation, not God. |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Only the writers' opinions, not God's | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 10:21:36 08/05/05 Fri "God doesn't need writers to do any writings for him..." This is a perfect example of humans trying to create their own image of God... a sinful practice. Every word of the Bible was divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit, written through the hands of men. What you read in the Bible IS written by the Lord, and that is how the Lord communicates with us. "...nor are translations needed for any of God's communications." You've got that right. There's no doubt in my mind that the Church used tithing in the worst ways. If fact, before Martin Luther, the Church taught tithing as a "ticket to heaven" of sorts. The common people didn't know how to read, and therefore could not study the Bible to read 2 Corinthians 9:7. I can only imagine the anger the Lord must have felt as this was going on. I don't doubt that there are some churches within various faiths that agressively push the tithing concept as a means of securing more than enough money. But when we read the Bible and come to understand God's word, we understand what God teaches about giving and generosity... Mark 12:41-44 "And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living." Yesterday, on a whim, I donated $10 to a children's hospital. This is how I give to the Lord. Although I live on a poverty level of income, I always find ways of giving to those less fortunate. I do not give ten percent of my income, because I am not as noble as the poor widow in the verse above. To give that much takes total, complete, unwavering faith in God's promise of blessings... and that is not an easy bridge to cross for anyone. I pray for strengthened faith so that someday I can cross that bridge. Oh, and about "arbitrarily" compiling the books of the Bible, I don't believe it was arbitraty to the Lord. I do not know why several of such boring books were included, but then I do not question the wisdom of my creator. Tom |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Only the writers' opinions, not God's | |
|
Author: QUITTNER [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 09:12:12 08/08/05 Mon Tom, the many libraries in all countries are full of all sorts of writings in all sorts of languages, and there are also those on the computers. Anyone can claim that their writings were inspired by God. But can they prove it? ..... And there are very many belief systems on this planet, with their own sales literature that they keep pushing, and their leaders may claim that it has been inspired by God. But can they prove it? ..... God communicates directly with people (no need for clergy) that are open to such commuications and have not ex-communicated themselves; others may read all sorts of out-of-date, obsolete writings instead; some people claim to speak for God, or even to represent God. But can they prove it? ..... If you give money to some cause, then you are partly credited with/held responsible for the good/bad things that are done by the recipient(s) with your money. God doesn't need your money, and you don't/didn't give it to God. |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Only the writers' opinions, not God's | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:35:56 08/08/05 Mon >"Anyone can claim that their writings were inspired by God. But can they prove it?" Anyone can claim their writings are inspired by God, but God only claims the writings He inspired. God also states the horrible plague-like terror that anyone brazen enough to alter His written word would endure. I don't know of anyone throughout history who attempted to test God on that one. Sure, there are translations of every kind, but the inegrity of His message is 100% intact. The Dead Sea Scroll further proved this when they were compared to hundreds of years worth of translations. Aside from the translations themselves, God's word has not changed. People claim to be all sorts of things, but what matters is what you know YOU are. It's super easy to sit back and demand physical proof of this and that (like I used to do) and its even easier to assume and declare that God works in the ways that make the most sense to you (like I used to do.) But that kind of thinking isn't going to get you were you need to be. There is a lot of proof to God's creation of the earth and the heavens, and they may lead one on the path toward God as it did for me, but it was His word that finally led me to Him. Jesus said that blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe. What must you see before you believe? I have seen the greatness of God's handiwork in the heavens and I have experienced his glory manifested in the words and deeds of so many loving people. Those who experience God's love and believe in Him with all their heart do not not need the same physical proof you seek, because they already know their creator. I am not responsible for what a charity does with my donations, but I am responsible for the reasons behind my giving. I give because I am blessed with so much more than others have, and all that I have was given by God. Sometimes we say, "If only I had a thousandth of Bill Gate's income!" But there are some who may look at my poverty level of income who can say the same. If you give of your time and money because you truly care about those who need it more than yourself, then are you not giving to the Lord? Tom |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Only the writers' opinions, not God's | |
|
Author: QUITTNER [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 09:26:28 08/09/05 Tue Tom, thank you for your responses; my time is limited and I have to stop looking at, or even posting to this forum. All the best to you, keep well, health is more important than money! |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Only the writers' opinions, not God's | |
|
Author: Tom [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22:04:22 08/09/05 Tue Quittner, I also wish you all the best. I enjoyed the conversations. Take care, Tom |
|
Forum timezone: GMT-8 VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB: Before posting please read our privacy policy. VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems. Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved. |