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Date Posted: 05:35:16 10/17/06 Tue
Author: Thinking Allowed. Thinking Aloud. (Screenshots)
Subject: Equity: Par Value vs. Market Value
In reply to: Centre for Public Policy Studies (CPPS) 's message, "Bumiputra Equity: Dr Lim Teck Ghee resigns from ASLI-CPPS" on 23:23:14 10/16/06 Mon

Comments
tucked away on page 8 of the star print edition today:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/10/17/nation/15743184&sec=nation

FDIs took a dip last year Indonesia attracted more investment

KUALA LUMPUR: Foreign direct investment (FDI) in Malaysia dipped to US$3.97bil (RM14.69bil) last year from US$4.62bil (RM17.09bil) in 2004.

For the first time since 1990, Indonesia managed to overtake Malaysia in drawing FDIs. Inflows to Indonesia surged by 177% to US$5.26bil (RM19.46bil) last year.

Posted by: CI | October 17, 2006 10:02 AM

It seems the government is very sensitive to such questions as if there is much to hide. The non bumi is not questioning the rights of the bumiputeras. We are only questioning if the government is aware that things are not right with the implementation of affirmative actions. For that Pak Lah is warning everyone, jangan buat kacau. I want to ask back, Pak Lah got eat cabai ke?

Posted by: Quest | October 17, 2006 10:14 AM

There are so many things at fault:

For NEP, are they talking about '30% of wealth' or '30% of equity ownership'? If '30% of wealth' then EPU calculation is wrong because they don't refer to market value. But if '30% of equity ownership' then ASLI study is really wrong because the assumption of 1,000 top companies is totally wrong. As I said many times, since when do the listed companies represent ALL companies in Malaysia? How about those foreign companies that are not listed, or family businesses that are not even incorporated?

If ASLI insist on including GLC, why didn't it include Petronas, and value it according to a reasonable P/E ratio. I'm sure Bumiputra's 'wealth ratio' will increase to 70%.

So let us answer the basic question first, is it '30% of wealth' or '30% of equity ownership'. Then we know whose figures are rubbish.

Posted by: nukethem | October 17, 2006 10:19 AM

People have short memories, folks are ever forgiving and because of this decent and kind human nature, these so-called leaders of the PEOPLE are forever manipulating and taking advantage of the working-class ordinary law-abiding citizens.Have we really forgotten KOJADI scheme where millions of ringgit were cheated and stolen from the old senior citizens of their hard-earned and life savings by the supposedly GUARDIANS & CHAMPIONS of the poor, weak and the down-trodden? What about your Chinese HERO Mr.Tan Koon Swan? What about ALL the MCA's leaders political SCAMS & SCANDALS & debacles of the century, dating from 1980's onwards? The only good visible standing institution would ONLY be the TAR College/University which surely could have been built MUCH, MUCH earlier! Please bear in mind, these are the PEOPLE's money you're embezzelling, from the tax-payers money who put you in a position of authority! Website - http://malaysia-today.net/blog2006/letters.php?itemid=149

Posted by: Concerned Citizen | October 17, 2006 10:51 AM

There's a very good post here:

http://karipanas.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Neil | October 17, 2006 10:52 AM

It's okay to use par value to compute the percentage of ownership of A PARTICULAR company,

say, a listed company has 100 shares @ RM1 par value per share, 30 shares is owned by Ali, 70 shares is owned by Ah Kow. No matter how much is market value of the said share, the distribution of ownership and wealth always stand on 30:70 without taking other consideration than above.

But you can't judge on the same way as above did over a GROUP of companies as different companies have different market value or so called intrinsic value.

Hope Mushyidin read this.

Me too, an accountant by profession.

Without the necessary accounting knowledge, you can easily get confused over the issue of PAR value, or MARKET value.

I call on Abdullah administration to seriously review its PAR value methodology on its EPU in order to return us, Malaysian or the average public joe, a fair and reasonable report. Please consult financial expert if your administration does not have the required expertise.

If CPPS report is unreliable, How bout your EPU?

Who should apologise?

Posted by: whling | October 17, 2006 10:54 AM

Add to Uncle Kit point, what if Company X issue stock with RM0.50 par value but price at RM1.00? Is that mean somebody own the stock "lost" money and become "poorer"?

How about a company owning a RM100 millions assets but with RM1000 pay up capital(par value)?

It seems EPU methodology is full of rubbish(oppps). It just doesn't make sense for the country economy.

For example,should a bank issue loan base on company par value or market value?

What if Company A buy Company B(par value RM1000) with RM100 milliions, is company B worth RM1000 or RM100millions?

Posted by: moo_t | October 17, 2006 11:26 AM

Abdullah has comments -
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/10/17/nation/15747771&sec=nation&focus=1

Please look at the way of the article was written.

OK then, Abdullah, show us the methodology, before we complain and so called insuanation.

______________________________________________________

To concerned citizen:
Yes, ppl have short memories, but what if a series of bad publication, e.g. Proton, Bridge, KJ, Avenue capital, racist comment, ASLI, (I'm sure I forgot some of it) happen, if it's only 1 or 2 items, ok, we will forget, but a STRING of INCIDENTS?
______________________________________________________

Hello, MCA, what's your comment on the ASLI report?

No voice? Sorry, my vote will go to Gerakan - Mr. Lim Kit Siang on the next election. That's the only thing I can do. Damn... who else can I vote if my area only between a competition between MCA and PAS.

A frustated Malaysian.
______________________________________________________

Jeff:

With no offence, and I appreciate and admire your sacrifice and courage in maintaining this blog space.

But, you have mentioned numerous times that we bloggers always whine and rant.

My opinion is that instead of keep pointing the fingers to us - bloggers who whine and rant all the times.

Why not give us some education on what you think we can do? It's the same as the accounting issue, we don't have the appropriate information, means, education on what we can do in this situation other than whine and rant.

As a citizen of Malaysian and a proud Malaysian, the only thing I can think of is to vote the one I think who is suitable to be our candidate in coming election. But, what if we think that there's no suitable candidate in our area? What is left for us to do?

If you have a blank mind on what we can do, it does not make you any better than us - whiners and ranters. May I suggest that please offer the courtesy to set a title for those ppl who have the ideas on how to get the things done/right to. comment, as we do not have the resourse, expertise in this area.

Haven't you realised that blogs mostly attract and promote whiners, but of course, some thoughts are mind catching.

I believe more open discussion helps to develop equity BUT only with appropriate guidance, it gets to nowhere if no one is giving a direction/suggestion.

JEFF OOI says: What I asked of my readers is to do some homework (reading up) on intricate issues before using mostly his/less-so her "I-centered" mindset as the gospel trith in passing judgment on dissneting views. If we can't agree, we should agree to disagree. Often times, my readers attack the messengers rather than the issues at hand. Then asking Malaysians to leave the country, or those who already left, ridicule those who didn't. That's what I call rant and whine. Because the issues raised remain unresolved. I don't call for confrontational stance. I call for an active mind among Malaysians and be vigilant of political blackmailing used by may in power. First step, register yourself and your family members -- at home and at large -- as voters. The general election is coming -- but none from among readers have started to think and talk about it yet. You can make the difference, and I am not talking about the Road safety Campaign ads.


Posted by: whling | October 17, 2006 11:35 AM

i'm sorry to disagree.

whatever methodology used to calculate the bumi's equity still not reflecting the true facts that bumi ownership on equities are still low.

The NEP might seems unfair among Malaysian citizens. But this is the only answer to bring up the bumi to compete with non bumi in economic. It sounds like discrimination. But without NEP too, non bumi still practising discrimination. Even the non-bumi controlled companies employed the bumis but what position do they offer. Clerk? General worker? Executive?

How many top position do they offer to bumis?

It's the matter of trust. Non-bumis never trust bumis. The only reason they can provide "they are lazy, and incompetent in doing work".

For how long they gonna give this excuse?

If they have this mindset, forget about it. Lets see what NEP can proves.

Posted by: dof | October 17, 2006 11:46 AM

PM's talk, either at par or market value, is a thinly veiled threat of another Ops Lallang.

Everytime they lose an argument the claws are unsheathed. Sad to say, but I have lost my initial respect for the man. The chinese has a saying, change the brew but not the medicine (换汤不换药).

What else can we do, Jeff? I'm probably stuck here, but I'm thinking of teaching my children to sing.."..all my bags are packed, I'm ready to go.."

Posted by: daniel | October 17, 2006 11:54 AM

Dof, firstly we are not hear to argue about NEP existance and whether bumi should be helped. That is a separated issue, please stay focus!

What we are here to discuss is whether the methodology used by EPU are accurate. This is crucial as the EPU methodology will determine if the whole NEP will be successful.

NEP is meant to help poor Malaysian and I am sure everyone is wiling to help genuinely poor Malaysian.

I wish to stress again we are here discuss a scientific study, stop bringing your Barisan National-diluted/polluted stories into this.

Posted by: GreenJellyBean | October 17, 2006 11:56 AM

one more thing, done blame other for not respecting you. Respect is earned, not given.

same goes with opportunity.

At the end of the day, if you keep receiving peanuts, it might be because you are acting like a monkey.

p/s: I am not attacking anyone, I am just attacking an argument. I appologize if anyone is hurt.

Posted by: GreenJellyBean | October 17, 2006 12:02 PM

AAB remark that "you can question but do not insinuate" shows that he talks without thinking or before checking his facts.

Who made the insinuations about the ASLI study? It was UMNO insinuating that the study was done with a prejudiced view for the benefit of one community. What about a minister the minister also insinuating the similar when he labelled the study as "rubbish". Every statement from the government and UMNO quarters bears the same insinuation that the study was slanted towards one community.

So who is making the insinuations? Wake Up PM if you are still asleep!!!!! Look at your own house before casting insinuations! It is sickening when one reads such assanine statements from no less a person than the PM of a country. He only makes an ass of himself.

Posted by: veritas | October 17, 2006 12:03 PM

Though the Govt's intention to redress the distribution of wealth may be laudable and noble, it appears to have failed in many aspects.

It appears that a handful of Bumiputeras have made millions and possibly billions from these privileges accorded to them in form of share allocations, business licences, APs etc.

The biggest question that Pak Lah has to ask itself is whether that wealth accumulated has trickled down to the ordinary Malay folk who lives in the Kampung and in poverty. How many Malays actually benefited from the 30% IPO allocations ? How many Malays actually benefited from the allocation of APs?

Furthermore, it appears that the wealth accumulated by most bumiputeras via these means are quick and easy with little hard work and entrepreneurship. What sort of entrepreneurship among Bumiputras are we encouraging here?

It appears that even after 30 years of the NEP implementation, it has failed to create a credible middle and upper middle income class of Bumiputeras among the Malaysian society. In Malaysia till date, the middle and upper middle income group is still predomoninantly Chinese. And this is evident in property launches in Klang Valley of homes costing more than RM500k. There is hardly any bumiputra buyers. Most developers like Sunrise that concentrate on high end properties would always lament of those unsold bumi units.

In short, wealth among Chinese and Malay may have been distributed and equalised somewhat unlike the 60s when the Chinese population controlled more than 80% of the economy. However, NEP has only resulted in the gap between a rich Malay and a poor Malay to be even wider. Hence, the wealth distribution should not be between the Chinese and the Malay but within the Malay community itself.


Thomas


Posted by: thomas | October 17, 2006 12:06 PM

Agree with you GreenJellyBean,

If topic of discussion is an exam question, most of the answers here will get telur ayam/itik/ whatever...after marking.

Answers totally out of topic.

Posted by: Rafidi | October 17, 2006 12:34 PM

From Kit's blog: /// This same methodology has been applied consistently since 1970. According to the 9th Plan (table 16.6), the total par value of share capital in 2004 amounted to RM 529.8 billion of which 18.9 percent was owned by Bumiputras, 40.6 percent by Non-Bumiputras, 32.5 percent by Foreigners and 8.0 by Nominee companies. ///

Kit, the par value is just one component of the calculation. If what you said above is correct, then it can work both ways. As long as par value is consistently used for all races (and foreigners), then it should be neutral, unless one group has consistently out-performed the others. For example, if the Chinese owned companies are very profitable, using par value will under-state the Chinese-owned equity. On the other hand, there are some humongous and very profitable Bumi companies such as Petronas and the banks which will tend to under-state the Bumi equity.

Then there is the nominees – more are likely to be Bumi-owned or those rent seeks who want to hide their wealth.

Also, can the foreign-ownership figure be trusted? What if some Umnoputras set up some BVI companies to hide their ill-gotten gains, and then round-trip the capital by investing as Foreigners?

Having said all the above, it is still much, much better to use market values instead of par value. Imagine if the companies are insolvent – par values will be meaningless. Moreover, the hundreds of millions of ringgits made from trading APs will never show up in the par value. Bottom line is, there should be more transparency. Whatever methodology should be made known. Why hide if the calculation can stand up to scrutiny?

Posted by: confusedcious | October 17, 2006 12:47 PM

Jeff,

Regarding your questions: "shall we take this PM talk at par value or otherwise?"

Well, par value or not, PM is definitely below par.

I think he is only deluding himself that he still holds a "blank cheque" mandate from the rakyat.

Oh well, I guess I should just make my money before all hell turns loose. Why worry so much, I am afterall only a second rate citizen.

My heart aches.

Posted by: AverageJoe | October 17, 2006 12:49 PM

dof, you said...

"The NEP might seems unfair among Malaysian citizens. But this is the only answer to bring up the bumi to compete with non bumi in economic."

I think you are one of those who are confused. You need to understand the NEP does not effectively help and bring up the bumiputeras, especially the poor ones. It helps the UMNO puteras. This will make the rich puteras richer, the poor bumi lag behind.

Posted by: streetz | October 17, 2006 12:59 PM

As sad as it may sound, I sometimes echoes AverageJoe's thought.

Why bother? I am just a second class citizen. I just want to make enough money and someday either my kids or generation to come will be able to migrate out of this mess before it falls apart.

Let the first class citizen fight for their own problem...

Posted by: GreenJellyBean | October 17, 2006 01:02 PM

GJB,

Sigh. It's like being an unwanted child in the family.

All because you were born last in the family. (Your siblings were born first you see, so they are somehow by default "more family" than you are).

And, all because you are scoring 100% in Add Maths and your other siblings can't scrap enough marks for Modern Maths. That is even after your mom has broken your arms and ripped your eyeballs out for good measure.

GJB, you think if all the Chinese just hand over our belongings and perceived "wealth", will our Malay brethrens accept us as real family?

Maybe our turn to get the 7% discount?

Posted by: AverageJoe | October 17, 2006 01:39 PM

Saturday, March 20, 2004

Malaysians go to the polls -
Time to vote: Today, Sunday, March 21, more than 10 million registered voters in Malaysia will head to some 6,000 polling stations nationwide to cast their vote. The federal elections are being held together with the state elections of 12 states, excluding Sarawak. Polling is from 8am(0000GMT) till 5pm(0900GMT) and the first results are expected by 8pm(1200GMT). Stay with The Star Online for all the news and results. http://thestar.com.my

Support me to support you, Pak Lah tells Malaysians

PETALING JAYA: Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi has appealed to voters to give a clear mandate to the Barisan Nasional today.

ˇ§I support the people. I support the people on what they want for their future and a better future for the country, which they will prove through the ballot box.

ˇ§So to me, you support me so that I can support you. I think it is very important. It's something I've been talking about,ˇ¨ he said in an interview on TV3 last night.

The Prime Minister was replying to questions raised by The Star deputy group chief editor II Datuk Wong Chun Wai and Utusan Malaysia deputy group chief editor Hamzah Sidek.

He said the people's support would give him the strength and the confidence to work for them.

ˇ§The people wants a government that is efficient, the people want a government that works for the people, a government that is successful to bring progress, economic prosperity, peace and stability to the country,ˇ¨ he added.

Abdullah also said that he had received reports that some people were going to try to sabotage the election process by preventing voters from getting to the polling stations.

ˇ§They may try to create traffic jams or somehow make it difficult for the voters. Such an action is tantamount to being anti-voters. But I tell the people not to worry and to come out to vote without fear,ˇ¨ he added.

Earlier in Penang, Abdullah cautioned the people against making the wrong choice and forsake the future of the country when casting their votes.


A big crowd of Barisan election workers ans supporters brought traffic along busy Jalan Dr Lim Chwee Leong to a stop when Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi made a pit stop at the Barisan operations centre for the Tanjung parliamentary constituency in Penang. Shouts of Hidup Barisan filled the air and Abdullah responded by hoding up his hands in the air. Abdullah's convoy swelled with supporters trailing the entourage along Lebuh Sunagi Pinang, jalan Dr Lim Chwee Leong, Jalan Carnavon, Penang Road, Jalan Codrington and Jalan Burma. Motorists were pleasantly surprised when the Prime Minister smiled and waved at them as he passed. --STARpic by GOH GAIK LEE.
He said the countryˇ¦s political and economic situation was good and favoured investors and fund managers who had pledged to come in droves to Malaysia.

These investors have expressed full confidence in the Barisan Nasional leadership steering the nation to greater heights, he added.

ˇ§So, what is your choice? What is it that you want? You want more politics or a stable government that can develop the country?ˇ¨ he told about 3,000 people at the official launch of IJM Berhadˇ¦s affordable home project comprising 5,500 low- and low-medium-cost units at the Bandar Sri Pinang project site, off the Jelutong Expressway, yesterday.

He said investors and fund managers had indicated that the country could achieve greater progress if the Barisan coalition was returned to power with a bigger majority.

ˇ§That is what they said, not me. I donˇ¦t make that claim,ˇ¨ he added.

Abdullah said he had agreed to become Prime Minister after Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad stepped down on Oct 31 last year and it was now his responsibility to manage the country well.

ˇ§It is like inheriting wealth from your father where you have to manage the wealth and not make it disappear,ˇ¨ he said.



http://thestar.com.my/election2004/story.asp?file=/2004/3/21/e2004_news/7591066&sec=e2004_news



Posted by: Daniel Empire | October 17, 2006 01:40 PM

GJB,

Sigh. It's like being an unwanted child in the family.

All because you were born last in the family. (Your siblings were born first you see, so they are somehow by default "more family" than you are).

And, all because you are scoring 100% in Add Maths and your other siblings can't scrap enough marks for Modern Maths. That is even after your mom has broken your arms and ripped your eyeballs out for good measure.

If one day Bumi ownership turns over 50%,will it be our turn to get the 7% discount when buying that swanky low cost flat in Jalan Duta?

Posted by: AverageJoe | October 17, 2006 01:40 PM

Jeff,

Are you insinuating that we should register and out-vote the current administration?

Respect man.

Unfortunately, you are not the first. Someone probably said the same back in the 1960s. Ended in a bloodbath.

I admit I'm chicken. So while you guys register to vote, I'll grab my tix to Auckland like my life depends on it.

JEFF OOI says: I am ONLY insinuating that you should vote in the future and get the government you deserve. Those who rant and whine are not voters in the past who let others decide the government they dserve. You tried to frame me, and I know it.

Posted by: AverageJoe | October 17, 2006 01:50 PM

GJB,

I reckon non-bumis should just divest their stocks in Bursa and take a look at Hang Seng or even the S'pore stock exchange.

I think it is finally a win win situation.

Bumi equity should shoot up.

Then maybe the NEP can be abolished?

Hang Seng/S'pore promises much better returns anyway

What say you?

Not everyone need to divest. Leave the YTL's and Gentings alone.

Posted by: AverageJoe | October 17, 2006 01:58 PM

i vote for PAS/Rocket next time. The ABB administration is such a disappointment.

In CNN, ABB he saids he read the paper. Hopefully, he can read this blog too.


Posted by: jararaca | October 17, 2006 02:00 PM

Yes, it does appear the Govt is leaning towards a weeding operations... Let's pose a hypothetical Q. IF, and that's a big if, the Bumi equity is found to be >40%, say after some independent valuations from the experts from the UN, will the 9MP be restructured? And other Govt policies be reviewed? If everything just stands as still as MCA, why get hot under the collar!!! Some guys like us are getting the short end of the stick, and with the hanging sword of ISA, it's better to visit the porno sites instead!!!

Posted by: susmaryosep | October 17, 2006 02:03 PM

Jeff,

Ha. Sorry man. Just a cheeky play of words.

Come to think of it, this "insinuating" business is dangerous business. I hope no one gets into trouble for this.

For all my lunch break ranting - i love Malaysia.

I represented the Country a few times, and each time I hear Negaraku - i have never failed to shed a tear.

But will my Nation shed a tear for me?

Well Jeff, all said and done, you are right. "Votes" are the only legitimate "weapon" of the rakyat to decide their destiny.

Sorry again for that cheeky thing I did. (Note: I didn't just apologise for the discomfort I have caused you - nor did I claim I was misinterprated.)

JEFF OOI says: ;-)

Posted by: AverageJoe | October 17, 2006 02:07 PM

JoeAverage,
Chicken or not, you don't have to worry( I am chicken too). Through regular 'gerrymandering' exercises, we can't vote any alternative into power, even if 50% of the people vote opposition! The Govt has seen to that!

Posted by: susmaryosep | October 17, 2006 02:07 PM

"First step, register yourself and your family members -- at home and at large -- as voters. The general election is coming -- but none from among readers have started to think and talk about it yet. You can make the difference, and I am not talking about the Road safety Campaign ads".

I have Jeff :-). However, I do not know where to register. Can anyone please assist? Jeff, next time there is an election registration for would-be voters, could you please alert us here on the blog. I am sure many of your readers would be interested.

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: caribenar | October 17, 2006 02:09 PM

"At the end of the day, if you keep receiving peanuts, it might be because you are acting like a monkey.

p/s: I am not attacking anyone, I am just attacking an argument. I appologize if anyone is hurt."

GreenJellyBean, I fully agree with you. After 30 years, I would have expected all to have received cashews nuts by now. Wonder where all the cashews nuts have gone to?

ps: No prizes for guessing the correct answer!

Posted by: caribenar | October 17, 2006 02:14 PM

This is a bit out of the discussion but I wish to share with everyone my two cents worth.

Since 1969, UMNO modus operandi had been championing "Malays Right" (Ketuanan Melayu). The primary weapon they yield is NEP. With NEP, they enrich themselves and in the same time, stay in power.

Let’s imagine this. What will happen if UMNO backed down and agreed on the figures reported by ASLI or even elected an international independent institution to redo the calculation, which will clearly showed Bumiputra equity already surpasses 30%?

Yes, this means NEP already archive its target and no longer required. Without NEP, UMNO will lose its ONE and ONLY objective and weapon, thus putting the party in the same position as NEP, redundant and obsolete.

In this light, UMNO will fight to their death to defend the government figures. In order to give the illusions to the general public that the party is still relevant to the progress and stability of this country.

Since its death that the party is searching, death we shall give them. LET’S VOTE THEM OUT IN NEXT ELECTION.


Posted by: FireAce | October 17, 2006 02:22 PM

wah...FireAce.

Respect. I guess since you are not insinuating anything - you are in the clear. Hahaaha

I hear you loud and clear man/woman.

Posted by: AverageJoe | October 17, 2006 02:31 PM

"As sad as it may sound, I sometimes echoes AverageJoe's thought.

Why bother? I am just a second class citizen. I just want to make enough money and someday either my kids or generation to come will be able to migrate out of this mess before it falls apart.

Let the first class citizen fight for their own problem..."

Sorry GreenJellyBean, I cannot agree with your thoughts on this. You and every citizen have a right to be in this country. We should not be pushed-over and run away just because some one else is trying to muscle in on your turf in an unfair manner. Helping the bumis to grow and have a share of the country's wealth is a good thing. I am all for it but when it is used by some to greedily enrich themselves at the expense of everyone, that becomes a problem. That's what this is all about. If everyone leaves the country or waits for someone else to fight their war for them, little wonder that one day we will eventually be looked down and frown upon as inconsequential insects (worst than monkeys ....if you pardon the pun) wherever you might be.


Posted by: caribenar | October 17, 2006 02:32 PM

What susmaryosep said is true...

IF NEP did achieve its target, do you think UMNOputera will wake up and say, "Hei, I think I ate enough already, lets play fair now."

Do you really think so??

Stop dreaming.

At the end of the day, whether it is 19% or 40%, NEP will continue and BN will still be in power.

The only think we can do is vote for a significant opposition so that the power is in check.

It is impossible for a change of government because money politics still goes strong and most of the kampung folks wouldnt care less if you stuff them with a tangki come every election.

But it is possible to have a strong opposition that will help you watch over them.

A government do not need 90% vote to operate, they only need 2/3 to pass a law and much less on daily debates. So a 51%-60% will be the best bet!

Heck, even lesser would not harm. Because at the end of the day when the Politician do not have total control over his seat, he will need to carry the citizen's balls, not the other way around.

Posted by: GreenJellyBean | October 17, 2006 02:41 PM

"A government do not need 90% vote to operate, they only need 2/3 to pass a law and much less on daily debates. So a 51%-60% will be the best bet!"

I will vote for even the vegetable seller lady if she is standing for election as an independent just to deny the BN for a 2/3 majority. What can be worst? Opps....except to vote for PAS. I have enough of BN's election promises!

Posted by: caribenar | October 17, 2006 02:46 PM

Caribenar,

You are entitled to your opinions.

I was like you many years ago. Idealistic.

Then I realised that I have mouths to feed. It changes my perspective of things.

All things being equal, we all will die someday. So why the fuss. Go where you can find the best live.

After all, in a few million years, we all become fosil fuels. Bumi or not.

Posted by: AverageJoe | October 17, 2006 02:47 PM

One more thing, if u give 90% vote to DAP, i am sure the next government will be as corrupted.

Be real guys, we need a strong opposition, whoever they are.

caribenar,
I know it sounds like a coward/loser's thought. But those are exactly my feelings when I grew tired, and no matter how tough you are, you do get tired sometime.

Lets get back to topic shall we :)

Posted by: GreenJellyBean | October 17, 2006 02:50 PM

can someone please sell me your maybank or telekom at RM 1.00 per share (which is the par value as per bursa info) ?

nope ? ok, i double it to RM 2.00 per share ... how about that ? ...

http://stocktube.blogspot.com

Posted by: StockTube | October 17, 2006 03:03 PM

Jeff, I agreed with Kit's argument. Market value is definitely the fairer value to based on in the computation of a company's worth.

Even if we based on 600,000 registered companies, I believe the Bumi corporate equity is more than 18.9%.

Posted by: Peter | October 17, 2006 03:45 PM

No one questions the concept that the poor irrespective of race or religion should be given assistance in the way of scholarships,discounts on houses,free medical care and even reservations for jobs. This was the noble philosophy behind the NEP. As Malays form the majority of the poor in absolute terms , naturally the Malays would have been the main beneficiaries of the NEP.

However, it appears that the NEP has been hijacked by a small group of the elite,comprising all races, and made up of politicians in cohort with businessmen.Many senior retired government servants also belong to this elite group who have maximally benefitted from the NEP.

Now, the poor and middle class are grumbling, particularly as inflation bites into their disposable income.

In this disgruntled atmosphere , suddenly, a figure of 48 % is thrown in, challenging the establishments 18.9 %.

The basic difference in the computation of the two figures appears to be the concept of "ownership" versus "market value". The standard concept of wealth calculation has been based on "Market value" rather than " ownership.

If one bases this on owner ship then;

1. One share in TNB is equivalent to one share in Farlim.

2. A "unit" of Perdua Kancil is equivalent to a "unit" of a Mercedes S 320.

3. A 5000 sq.ft. detached house in Baling,Kedah is equivalent to a 5000 sq.ft.detached house in Bukit Damansara.

The 18% concept is stating that the value of the asset is unimportant. Rather what matters are the units.

So to proponents of this concept;
Why not we then exchange a unit of a Perdua Kancil for a Merc.? Any takers?


Posted by: malaysianpatriot | October 17, 2006 04:17 PM

Caribenar,

just go to Post office, pass them your i/c and register. Less than 5 min i guess. Your i/c address is the place u r going to vote later....

Posted by: Ah Hong | October 17, 2006 04:54 PM

Jeff,

I am flamboyant and have 4 wives. Today I have 2 children with each wife, so do I have 2 children and 6 bastards or simply 8 children?


Posted by: TaTT | October 17, 2006 05:04 PM

If government decide on Par-value, there is nothing citizen can do at it. You cannot say they are wrong. They just don't have a good reason to tell you. What we pointed out now only make them angrier.

Angry man cannot think -- Dr. M.

As long as old men are ruling the country, they will not be able to break out the "race" mentality. So be it. Let it be Par-value for the moment, as long as this cool everyone down.

You can't link Par-value to all sort of problem in the country, mainly corruption, because there is no proof of such connection.

But you can say there are loopholes. Yes, we have been busy of patching the holes for many years, until everyone is so good at "hole-patching" job. But mind you, changing to Market-value will affect these hole-patchers, they may be out of job. New problem to government, especially to bumi.

We just have to bear with them and show that we are patient Malaysian. But don't just sit and do nothing. Get up and cast your vote that make the difference.

Posted by: patriotic1994 | October 17, 2006 05:39 PM

This issue is just one of many issues that tells us that the people must take the necessary to ensure that absolute power is curbed and contained.

Some asked what can we do. We certainly can do something through the ballot box but that alone will not be sufficient. We can and need to do more. We can spread the news. We can educate others. Without having to be a politician. We can start to learn and understand about each, be tolerant to each other strengths and flaws. We can start to talk less and do more. We can whine and rant as much as we want on numerous blogs - but we if have yet to register as voter or we are voter who does not bother to vote, then we should just shut up and keep quiet; accept and eat the dish that is being served.

We can do something. Act now, not later

Posted by: NA | October 17, 2006 05:56 PM

patriotic1994,
it is about ASLI report and methodology used, nothing is talk about the policies making.

Will using market value methodology change those elite mindset? I don't think so. It just make them "political incorrect" and "unethical".

Even our own government department, e.g. MoF, MITI, IRD,BNM,KLSE don't use Par value. If using Par-value, KLSE index will be many times lower than the current number.

In fact, no organisation in the world using Par value for economy calculation. Not unless the country practice communism. In communism, you can maintain the goods "par value".

ASLI report just point out the rediculous "Emperor New cloth".

Posted by: moo_t | October 17, 2006 06:06 PM

Maybe all the opposition parties and those going independent can come together and take action to dissolve themselves and form a single unified new party with the sole mandate to be the only alternative to BN, to wit Umno. Right now there's too much mindshare baggage associated with the DAPs, PASs etc. Let go of them by moving all members into the new party and field that party under a single banner, with the appropriate themes - something along the line 'your only answer left to the BN you don't want to know anymore'. If the opps continue the way as before, they will dissipate their resources, achieve less and split the spartan's spearhead before it even hits the nebular mass that is BN's machinery.

New banner, new logo, fresh look, appeal to the young and old, key messages, hot buttons, etc.

BN will of course try to counter with the usual gerrymandering, vote buying and counterespionage, even disinformation. In particular, they will play up doubts that the new party components will fight for spoils should they even win one seat because how to distribute who is to sit in that seat? They may even resort to browbeating and enticements - new roads, fifty ringgits, etc.

But the new will of the people must be given one chance for a fresh channel to create the biggest resistance movement to BN.

The new party won't win the govt but it should chip away more for being the whole bigger than the sum of its parts.

What has happened to us that we have come to this after so many years of nation-building? Que sera.

Posted by: Neil | October 17, 2006 06:20 PM

nukethem,

you qoute:
'So let us answer the basic question first, is it '30% of wealth' or '30% of equity ownership'. Then we know whose figures are rubbish.'

IF NEP is regarding '30% of equity ownership', the solution is already been offered: 'exchange bumi's shares in Tenaga, Maybank, Telekom, MISC, with Farlim share (or other SME share if you like) with 1 shares to 3 shares of Farlim. If still not satisfy, I think those small home bussiness owners (nasi lemak, roti canai, CharKoaytew, Wantan mee, etc...)are all willing to incorporate their bussiness and exchange their share on PAR value with either Tenaga/Maybank/MISC share.

Got it?

Posted by: fairgame | October 17, 2006 06:40 PM
Website - http://www.jeffooi.com/2006/10/equity_par_value_vs_market_val.php#comments

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