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Date Posted: 09:44:36 02/18/08 Mon
Author: Catie
Author Host/IP: h78.8.28.71.ip.alltel.net / 71.28.8.78
Subject: Joan
In reply to: Joan 's message, "The meaning of eternal/unquenchable" on 11:29:20 02/12/08 Tue

One main element we are not addressing, one which you have probably guessed by now, is that I don't believe a person who dies goes immediately to heaven. So of course with that belief it would have to be obvious that I certainly don't believe anyone is in "hell" at this point. I believe when one dies, they are dead until the resurrection. Their spirit, which is the very breath of God, goes back to God. (spirit means breath) It is God Almighty's breath. Where else would God's own breath go?! Spirit and soul are not the same. It requires a body (mind) and a spirit (breath), to become a living soul. Just as God took dust to create Adam, then he breathed into him from his own breathe, then "Man became a living soul". All living things are the result of a "God-breathed" action. When we die, the breath of life goes out. It is in safe keeping with God where it was before we were formed in our MOther's wombs. The body goes back to "dust" in original form as God intended. While it goes through this process, the dead have no knowledge of anything. More than 79 verses new and old testament speak of death as a "sleep" state, that the dead have no knowledge, that the dead do not praise God, and even mentions King David "sleeps". If King David, a man after God's own heart, isn't in heaven, how could we expect others to be?! When Christ returns, graves will open, for Christians, God will have created a new body, one that never hurts or dies, "then the mortal shall put on immortality." Only Christ and God, and his angels are immortal. Until then, no one is in heaven except those the scriptures speak of being transformed, by-passed the sting of death and were taken directly by God to heaven. Some speak at funerals of death as a "Promotion" for a Christian. They have a wrong image of what God planned for man. It's not a promotion but the final triumph. It was never God's intention that man die. Sin caused man to die. But we don't pass from this life right into heaven. We must have a new body. Death is but the final triumph over sin. "OH grave where is your victory, or death where is your sting?" Death does not triumph over the Christian. Satan thought he had won the battle, but God had a plan from the beginning, that all who would believe upon his son would have everlasting life.

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[> [> Death -- Joan, 15:07:17 02/18/08 Mon [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

"More than 79 verses new and old testament speak of death as a "sleep""

Didn't Jesus' death on the cross conquer death?

We do agree that no impure thing can be in the pressence of God. Since most of us die w/ some sin, there must be some post-death purification. Seeing God can't be that, since nothing impure can be w/ God, not even until the impurity "burns" away.

"When Christ returns, graves will open,"

What about all the OT people? And what about all the other people on Earth since then?

Catholics don't believe that only Christians will go to Heaven.

What does your church teach about non-Christians and Heaven. What does it teach about Catholics and Heaven?

Joan

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[> [> [> Re: Death -- Catie, 16:38:38 02/18/08 Mon [1] (h78.8.28.71.ip.alltel.net/71.28.8.78)

"Didn't Jesus' death on the cross conquer death?"

It surely did!

Without sin man would never have died. Satan told a lie to Eve. "If you eat of the fruit you surely won't die." Welp, she took the bait. Satan then held power over mankind. Man did die. So God sent his son to conquer death. When Christ died, he took the power of death and the grave away from Satan. It means we don't have to remain dead, eternally. That's why death is a sleep for the Christian.

The veil of the Holy of holies was torn the hour Christ died. That meant no more sacrifice was necessary as was the custom at the ark of the covenant. It meant Christ became the slain lamb forever more. He died that we might live.

Everyone, who has ever lived, even from OT, unless they were transformed; ie: Enoch & Elijay (and yes even Moses) who never saw death; are in the ground awaiting resurrection.

"What does your church teach about non-Christians and Heaven. What does it teach about Catholics and Heaven? "

The BIBLE teaches all who ask forgiveness of sin and live the life God has asked us to live, keep his commandments, (remember, the greatest of these is love) regardless of denomination, sex, creed, national origin,-will inherit eternal life in heaven with God. If we love God we WILL keep his commandments. It is our choice. Christ said I am the way- the truth- and the life. If we seek truth we will find it.

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