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That's awful! -- DizzyDeb, 12:50:17 10/08/08 Wed [1]
And to not acknowledge and discourage these outbursts is to give them credibility. I was so hopeful that this election would be done civilly.
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And let's not forget G. Gordon Liddy.... -- scooter, 07:07:03 10/09/08 Thu [1]
McCain's "good friend" and Hitler admirer, who went to prison for the Watergate break-in, and who advocated shooting ATF agents "in the head." He held a fundraiser at his house for McCain. Should we say McCain is "palling around with domestic terrorists"? No, that would be wrong, just as accusing Obama of that is wrong. But seriously, all this talk about Obama and terrorism is just racism and xenophobia dressed up with another name.
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One more thing.... -- scooter, 07:15:50 10/09/08 Thu [1]
If McCain is so concerned about Obama's association with Ayers and Wright, why doesn't he bring it up himself directly to Obama? Hiding behind Sarah Palin doesn't exactly make him look presidential.
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My, my. It's tag team time! -- Jeannine, 08:57:29 10/09/08 Thu [1]
It is okay, tho. I am used to it here.
So, SB, you think the media is fair and even-handed and "all over" the Ayers connection? Do you honestly think if the situation was reversed it would be reported the same way? I guess perception is everything. All I hear is how Americans don't care about it. I do. Hillary Clinton did too. hmmm.
I am not going to support or defend anyone's pastors/preachers/ spiritual advisors. I believe in Freedom of Religion. But there is only one candidate that for 20 years sat and listened to a racist hatemonger. Dismiss that if you want; I can't.
Bill Ayers is a terrorist and anarchist. I read the article by Roland Martin. You agree with that? The gist of it is that William Ayers is no worse than Robert Byrd, Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms. Really? They were racists, he was a terrorist. No difference? So Joe Biden must have refused to work with them too, right?
Troopergate. Ah yes. That horrible scandal. Well, you are right. We don't yet know how that will work out. Maybe she will be found to be implicit in the firing of her brother-in-law after he tasered his son. That could be a deal breaker. And that Alaskan secessionist group - well, you know that has already been found to be false so you can mark it off your list.
No. You cannot count me among those who think Obama is a terrorist, but thanks for asking. I do think he is a Socialist. I do think he has bad judgement and is an elitist. I find it reprehensible that he voted against the Born Alive bill. I don't think I need to list what his beliefs are. "Seriously". You have plenty of resources at hand. If you honestly think he is what we need, well, good for you. You used FUBAR - well if he is elected BOHICA.
And now - Scooter, Scooter, Scooter. Don't you just love Watergate? The gift that keeps on giving.
This says it all:
"But seriously, all this talk about Obama and terrorism is just racism and xenophobia dressed up with another name."
Lovely. Don't support Obama? Well, you are a racist. Say his middle name? Xenophobe. I would never reject a candidate based on race, gender, religion, sexual orientation or any personal choice that DOES NOT EFFECT HOW THEY WOULD GOVERN. I know it is easy to say "oh, she is just a racist". Doesn't make it true but you can keep on trying!
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I'm somewhere between you and scooter -- HF, 10:28:46 10/09/08 Thu [1]
I think Ayers is a non-issue and I do believe the McCain/Palin campaign is using it as a method of implicitly inciting racist, xenophobic fears of terrorism. Didn't Walter Annenberg sit on that same board? Has anyone ever accused him of befriending a terrorist? Plus, the only folks who are speaking publicly about their knowledge of the Obama-Ayers connection are saying that the two are not, and never have been, close. So yeah, I think the McCain campaign is purposely disingenuous re Ayers as a method of creating an emotional reaction among its potentially racist and xenophobic supporters. (Note: this does not mean that I think ALL McCain/Palin supporters are racist and/or xenophobic; what I mean is that this strategy is designed to appeal to those that are.)
But I do agree that discussing Obama's relationship with Reverend Wright is legitimate. His involvement with a person like Rev. Wright is questionable at best.
Finally, I have no idea how or why anyone would think that you (Jeannine) believe that Obama is a terrorist. I support the Obama campaign but not necessarily all of its tactics. I generally assume, for better or for worse, that most of the folks who support the McCain campaign do not support all of its tactics either.
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A lot of people agree with you.. -- SB, 11:59:05 10/09/08 Thu [1]
about Rev. Wright. Wouldn't you agree however that if that relationship should be scrutinized, than what the other candidate's pastors and spirtual advisors believes and have preached about should also be scrutinized?
I know McCain has said the topic is off-limits because probably they don't want the same scrutinzation of Palin's longtime church and pastors. I found this on Fox News from April - what a difference 6 months can make!
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http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/04/23/for-mccain-rev-wright-is-off-limits/
McCain declares Rev. Wright issue off limits
Inez, KY — In what is becoming almost weekly protocol, Sen. McCain condemned officials his own party for going over the line in attacking Barack Obama.
This time the North Carolina Republican party has launched a new TV spot tying local Democrats who support Obama to incendiary remarks made by the Democrat’s longtime preacher, Jeremiah Wright.
The ad declares that Obama is “just too extreme for North Carolina,” noting that local officials should “know better” than to support the Democratic presidential frontrunner.
McCain repeatedly called on the state party to pull the ad Wednesday, vowing again to run a “respectful campaign.”
“We called and asked them not to run that message. It’s not the message of the Republican Party. It’s not the message of my campaign. I’ve pledged to conduct a respectful campaign,” McCain said during a press conference Wednesday. “I can’t dictate to them but I want to be the candidate of everybody. I want to be the candidate of Republicans and Democrats and Independents and people across the political spectrum and I think that by traveling America and listening and learning as well as portraying my vision for the future, I’m going to attract a large number of independents and democrats into our cause because right now the cause is America and right now the cause is that Americans want us to work together to solve these enormous challenges that we face today.”
Then, alongside Republican National Committee Chairman Mike Duncan–who was traveling with the presumptive GOP nominee to his own hometown of Inez–McCain told reporters that local and state GOP officials sometimes lose sight of the ultimate party goals.
“I think sometimes we neglect a fundamental reason why we have political parties–that is to elect our candidates to office,” McCain said aboard his bus. “What I hope is that they would listen to my views that it’s not representative of the Republican Party and what we are trying to be. We are trying to be a party that respects everyone and to show disrespect for any candidate or anyone…is certainly not the party of Abraham Lincoln.”
Informed that the state party is planning to keep the ad on the air, McCain lamented, “unfortunately all I can do is, in as visible way as possible, is disassociate myself from that kind of campaigning.”
The AZ Senator added today that he believes “it is clear” that Obama does not share the world view of Rev. Wright and stated his intention to run an issue-centric campaign.
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Eh, not that much. -- HF, 12:25:15 10/09/08 Thu [1]
Sarah Palin is so the opposite of everything I believe in that I don't particularly care about her religious associations. At this point, I know enough about her to form an opinion about her VP qualifications. I don't need more.
Re McCain, I basically feel the same way as I do about Obama's connection with Wright -- bring it up, then drop it. So if folks care about Keating, it's out there, but personally it's all so long ago (for both candidates) that it's not going to influence my voting decision. I'm more interested in what they're going to do once elected.
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I agree. If the Wright issue is still on the table, then -- LAwoman, 12:58:14 10/09/08 Thu [1]
the religious characters the other candidate has affiliations with should be on the table too. I'm sure there is enough hateful proselytizing to go around. But that's just in the interest of parity. It doesn't really affect my vote. I'm more interested in their plans for the future, not their buddies of the past.
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here we go again... -- scooter, 10:41:58 10/09/08 Thu [1]
Can't you just support McCain and leave it at that? Why do you feel you have to demonize his opponent? It has been proven there was NOT a close relationship between Ayers and Obama. Are you suggesting that Obama is a terrorist? What's the point of all this discussion? And I got your sarcasm about Watergate. Tell me, what is the statute of limitations about scandals? Bill Ayers was active 40 years ago, Watergate was after that. And you didn't address my G. Gordon Liddy question. Why not apply the same standard to John McCain? And why is Obama's middle name even an issue? Please don't try to tell me that the people emphasizing it don't have an agenda. And I am not talking about you, although you seem to take everything personally.
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My message should have gone under Jeannine's -- scooter, 11:09:45 10/09/08 Thu [1]
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Re: The media will not? -- SB, 11:33:55 10/09/08 Thu [1]
I think I’ll pass on the whose ‘associations’ are worse debate because it can go back and forth for ages when we're talking about politicians, but I do have to comment that you run a slippery slope when you say someone like Robert Byrd was only a ‘racist’ when he was a member of KKK for 2 years and even 5 years after leaving wrote a letter to the Grand Wizard stating “The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia and in every state in the nation.” (Wikipedia) Do you not consider the KKK terrorists?
Anyway, I could've really cared less about any of McCain's past associations, but he MUST know when he makes an issue of someone's elses past associations that his own past associations might come to light and be scrutinzed? Politicians are SO stupid when it comes to hypocrasy (and yes, I mean Obama too because their camp does the same damn thing)! IMO most people, unless it suits them politically, do not equate your character with people of questionable character that you have loosely associated with. Yeah, maybe if you are close personal friends and have a proven relationship and fondness for each other I might look closer. Otherwise, a $200.00 campaign contribution and a joint membership on a board aren't making most people bat an eye obviously.
The trouble with words is I think the insinuation that somehow Obama is palling around and chummy chummy with a terrorist and therefore believes it is okay to BE a terrorist (which lets face it McCain/Palin is insinuating if not outright saying) are turning people into radicals. You can see it in the campaign stops. I honestly did not think I’d see any real people that I know spewing these radical ideals and it only took a day for me to proven wrong. McCain/Palin are riling up this frenzy and then their campaign comes out and says they don’t approve of the use of the name “Hussein”. That one had me cracking up!
As for BOHICA, Americans have been through it since 2000 and most predicted a bad outcome. Unfortunately, they were right. If Obama is elected I only hope he lives long enough to prove them wrong. Time will tell.
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Very sad. -- DizzyDeb, 14:13:31 10/09/08 Thu [1]
I don't even know what to say other than that.
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I keep praying some fundy doesn't feel spiritually moved -- doni, 00:36:47 10/18/08 Sat [1]
to take out the "anti-christ". As I'm sure Jayjay can attest, and as evidenced by an incident west of here in the last 20 years, racism and the kkk are alive and active in the south. Remember when David Duke was running for a seat in Louisiana?
My stepD insists there will be a 'race war'--and is sending a lot of apocalyptic emails quoting scripture about how they will join with the muslims and 'these are the end days'...so I know that's what some of his generation (post-depression babies) must actually believe. I told him blacks are only 12% of the population so it just isn't likely.
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