Author:
Wade A. Tisthammer
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Date Posted: 06/23/05 2:36pm
In reply to:
Ben
's message, "Ignoring the Bible" on 06/20/05 12:46pm
>>Not at all. I'm not sure if you noticed this, but
>>nobody's perfect; and that includes being morally
>>perfect. "All have sinned and fall short" as the old
>>Bible verse goes. So we're not sinful merely because
>>of what some legendary Adam and Eve did, we're sinful
>>through our own actions. Some liberal theologians
>>think the Adam and Eve story is symbolic for mankind
>>in general (we could have had paradise, but we screwed
>>it up by abusing our free will, and now we know
>>firsthand what evil is etc.).
>
>I'll just let the Bible speak for itself here. This
>is from Romans 5, and I have put some words in bold
>for the sake of emphasis.
>
> 12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through
>one man, and death through sin, and in this way death
>came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the
>law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not
>taken into account when there is no law.
>14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to
>the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin
>by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a
>pattern of the one to come.
That's only because Moses didn't bring down these particular Ten Commandments during the time of Adam. As for disobeying a command from God, Adam obviously did that. Clearly Paul was speaking in a different context from what you assumed here.
> 15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if
>the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much
>more did God's grace and the gift that came by the
>grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the
>many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result
>of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin
>and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many
>trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the
>trespass of the one man, death reigned through that
>one man, how much more will those who receive God's
>abundant provision of grace and of the gift of
>righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus
>Christ.
>
> 18Consequently, just as the result of one
>trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the
>result of one act of righteousness was justification
>that brings life for all men.
The condemnation was less causational than what one might think. Adam's was the beginning sin, the means in which sin entered the world, thus opening the floodgates so to speak for more to sin. To justify my interpretation, I quote Paul saying "and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned" and also let's not forget Romans 3:23.
Incidentally, for the most part I don't believe the letters of Paul to be divinely inspired (I have a more liberal theology than most conservative Christians), so I feel fine holding to my own doctrine regardless of what Paul says.
>Here are a few more verses that illustrate the
>injustice of God:
>
>------------------
>Isaiah 65:
>
>6 "See, it stands written before me:
> I will not keep silent but will pay back in
>full;
> I will pay it back into their laps-
>
> 7 both your sins and the sins of your
>fathers,"
Okay, so there are two guilty generations that will be punished for their wickedness. Why do you believe this to be unjust? But probably you were referring to something like what's insinuated below:
>Leviticus 26:
>38 You will perish among the nations; the land of your
>enemies will devour you. 39 Those of you who are left
>will waste away in the lands of their enemies because
>of their sins; also because of their fathers' sins
>they will waste away.
These kinds of passages have numerous commentaries for what they mean. Note the apparent ethical discrepancy between Exodus 20:5 and Deuteronomy 24:16. Some scholars believe different authors write the books, so perhaps the discrepancy shouldn't be too surprising. However, note that the same apparent discrepancy even occurs within the same book: Deuteronomy 5:9 and Deuteronomy 24:16! One possibility is that their implicitly describing a general tendency of sons imitating fathers. Examining Exodus 20:5 for instance we see that he punishes "to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me [emphasis added]" indicating children who are as sinful as their parents. You may not agree with such an interpretation, but it is there nonetheless.
>------------------
>
>Now, admittedly, the Bible contradicts itself in other
>places and says each person pays for his own sins, but
>for me, that doesn't make the situation any better for
>Christians. It just shows that the Bible is
>problematic in itself.
The Bible consists of ancient languages from a long extinct time period. For better or for worse, many interpretations and translations are possible; and many alleged discrepancies (some are real, though many proposed ones are not) can be resolved as thus.
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