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Date Posted: 14:22:33 07/10/13 Wed
Author: Joe Rizoli (Sad but free)
Author Host/IP:
Subject: FramGov Vss VOY forums

Well the FramGov experiment is over. The website claiming "democracy" in its name is just that a name but not much use to those who love their freedoms.

I resigned from the list and here is my email below.

But a few words first: We can't have freedom of speech unless we understand what it is. Freedom of speech to me means exposing the crooks that run our Government and exposing those who are part of that corruption or the crooks themselves. I feel that in order to correct crooked and corrupt Government one must expose what they are doing and name people.

Being in the FramGov list was like being in a fish bowl in the Boston Garden, whatever name it's called now at least. Yes, you have your fishbowl freedom but it is limited to the fish bowl. That was the FramGov list.

You are free to talk about anything as long as it is political correct and agrees with the Moderator of the list, which is really not that much freedom. As you know my issues dealing with topics that are basically taboo on the FramGov list like Illegal Immigration, Adult ESL, The Jews, The Holocaust, 911, the Marathon bombings, Agenda 21, Smart meters, Fracking, and home town issues like the Walden Marist Fathers issue and the Jews, Jews, and Jews again because they seem to pop up at all corruption places and murders and terrorist attacks. Not just superficial discussions. We should be able to talk about those topics deeply.. If you do that on FramGov you will be bitterly attacked by Jewish assholes and Christianswith with their Bibles up their asses. So therefor I post here. Linda basically is a good person but she is totally Jewdicized, meaning she is really stuck in a situation where she owes her viewpoints to a Jewish mentality, which is primarily concerned with censorship if the Jews are exposed.

I gave her reasonable opportunities to do as I asked and she asked me to do some things including wiping off some post here on the VOY she claims without permission to post and in violation of "copyright" rules.
She refuses to do what I asked and therefore this is where we are.

Here is my resignation from the FramGov list and why. Also, please keep this link because it gets you back to ALL the topics of the VOY Forums post:


My email back to Linda:

Sent from my ITouch, please forgive grammatical mistakes

On Jul 10, 2013, at 12:29 PM, Joe wrote:

.....snip....We are going to part ways. The way your list runs now is to much of a constraint for me and I know for you in dealing with the Rizoli's
Don't take it personally Linda, I really like you but I also enjoy my freedom to say what I want to say. You have a bit too much control for me. I usually don't make issues with people unless they do it with me first.

Coming back on the list proved it by my first post being declared a "creature". That basically showed the content people have on your list. I feel I have the freedom to answer that content back. I'll do it on my voy list.

Anyway thanks for having me.


Sent from my ITouch, please forgive grammatical mistakes

On Jul 10, 2013, at 10:42 AM, "Linda Dunbrack" wrote:


My personal preferences as forum manager would be to remove posts for which posters received a warning on civility, either formal or informal. That, of course, would mean that several of yours and your brothers posts would be gone, in addition to Dean's post and a couple of others as well.

However, the e-democracy site has a strict content removal policy that I have to live with unless I want to move the list again, (which is just too much work.) Personally, I'd prefer to have more discretion as forum manager. However, when you manage a list, you need to operate within the constraints of the host, just as when you subscribe to a list, you need to operate within the constraints of the list rules.

What is going to happen? Let's be clear: I'm not meeting your full list of demands. If you choose to part ways, that is certainly your option. You will have to decide whether being on FramGov is of sufficient value, given the conditions for being a subscriber.

1. If you choose to comply with the reposting requirements for FramGov, that is step 1 to getting you reinstated. That means using links and having consent from the poster to repost content to your forum.

2. Reinstatement means that I rescind the 3rd warning, which was for the copyright violations. However, your next civility violation will result in a long-term suspension. The targeted personal insults and ad hominem attacks on posters on voy put you at risk for receiving not just an official warning but even permanent list removal, because there is a pattern of attacks that could impact people's willingness to participate on the list. If I get complaints from the targets, that could become an issue for you.

3. Sorry, no links to the voy site. Not happening with all the directed personal attacks. You are going to have to recruit a following for that site some other way. This falls into that category of "Not even a chance of changing my mind on this one."

4. Feel free to petition e-democracy support for the removal of the offending post. Of course, without Dean's post, your response won't make sense to readers.

5. My moderation style isn't going to change. I've been doing it pretty much the same way for 7 years.

6. The linkages to e-democracy on e-democracy posts are part of the terms of service for the list. I will assert the right for an appropriate citation for any post lifted from the list, and, for the requirement for you to have permission from the author to repost their material beyond a snippet with a link. Copyrights on private posts are another issue and up to individual subscribers.

Linda Dunbrack-Forum Manager

On 7/9/2013 at 6:35 PM, Joe wrote:

I'll ask Jim, he started the list. But I do have a question for you Miss "ADMIN" in her own right or whoever is.

You want me to take down post but you have post on the FramGov highly disturbing and way off topic making character assassinations against the Rizoli's, quoting from websites that defend sexual predators and organized crime figures, the ADL for instance, defending Leo Frank and giving awards to Jewish organized crime figure Moe Dalitz from the Murder Inc, Purple Gang, a violation of your rules mind you, have you as the ADMIN or whoever is the ADMIN, deleted those post? In other words YOUR allowing the ADL link you have allowed people to go to an Anti-American traitorous Anti-Christ organizations like the ADL. If people can use that link I see no problem them using my VOY link, hehehehehe

Why are you asking me to do something you or the real ADMIN haven't done?

Putting into practice the book Animal farm? I'd use the animals involved but you may get offended thinking I'll calling you those animals, let's put it this way, they are known for bacon.

Did you read the book of see the movie? You kind of run the FramGov list like Animal Farm. Sorry, just being honest here.

By the way, as to Willys post.....He violated all rules of ethics sending his email to YOU when he emailed us. His post will never come down and you can pass that on to him.

By putting you in the email post for a "Send to" he made his email PUBLIC property.

So what going to happen here?
This isn't a one way street here Linda.

Great quote from "Silence of the Lambs" coming up here:

"Quid pro quo"

LAST point to finally solve some issues.

1. IF I do as you say and get the post down, or highly trimmed and then linked, you will

1. Immediately reinstate me to the List.

2. Allow my disclaimer quote to be linked at times If I or my brother or anyone else wants to use it.

3. Use your ADMIN powers or whoever is the ADMIN to either trim or delete the offensive post linked to the ADL and the SPLC.

3. Start acting like An America who cherishes Freedom of speech and stop being like a mother hen.

If you don't agree to this then we will part our ways, the VOY list will be used the way I want it and you can sue me.....I'll claim insanity because of smart meters and power lines, not to mention, flouride poisoning and Monsanto seeds DNA damage, and worse of all, that I live in Framingham.

Just say yes or no.

But remember once the people catch on that their post are going to be put on the VOY list as "fair use commentary", we will see how many post to your list.

This has already happened to the Metrowest Daily News web site for comments to articles. Since the New rule for REAL NAMES has come up for all post, the posting rate has dropped 98%
Apparently the cowardly police don't want their real names posted, including the police chief.

Quid pro quo Linda.

All your threats and mother henning won't mean a thing anymore. Comments will be fair game.

I'm not going to do all that work you ask, then for you to kick me in the teeth by keeping me off the list, not going to happen.

I got plenty to write about NOW.
That voy list just doesn't have FramGov article post it has others.

Those persons with their supposed "copyright" complaints need to contact me or probably Jim since he is probably the ADMIN of that VOY Forum and PERSONALLY show the link to the offensive material. They WILL NOT SPEAK THROUGH YOU.

Silence will be consent for non action.....if it happens at all.


Sent from my ITouch, please forgive grammatical mistakes

On Jul 9, 2013, at 3:29 PM, "Linda Dunbrack" wrote:

Joe, either you or your brother is the administrator of the forum. Forum admins have the ability to delete posts. You'll have to get creative if you want to edit.

Linda Dunbrack-Forum Manager

On 7/9/2013 at 1:07 PM, Joe wrote:

Linda, I can't take back post. They are etched there no different than the post in the FramGov. Sorry, I can't do anything about that.

As to going on from HERE, that is where we are at.

I have fair use to comment on Post on your list, that is the LAW, it is called "FAIR USE"

I am more concerned with my commentary not the post. I told you as per my promise, I can LINK back to the FramGOV, people can get the jist of any post in real time. I can BY LAW start a few sentences and then give my commentary either before or after.

This Isn't a big deal.
Lastly, I have NO problem IF I link off the list to the VOY to put up the disclaimer. It may not happen a lot, unless your natives really get restless. I am not going to be berated, sorry, by these haters of mankind. But that isn't your problem is it?
Just worry about your kingdom, don't worry about the rest of the internet, your not the internet police.

One more thing, You are quoting people to me saying they didn't give me permission, bla bla bla, let them contact me personally and I will tell them what I have told you. No second party here Linda.

So Are we in agreement here?

I have done my best to follow your rules. I showed in the last post what I will do.

Please remember here, this is MY commentary of what happened on your list. My comments are protected by free speech.

I have LINKED back to your sight as per your rules.


I have LEGALLY done what is expected of me. I want to be able to be back on the list now, not in 90 days. So decide.

We start from here, I can't fix the past any more than you can fix the past post to the FramGov.

We go from here.

Joe Rizoli

Sent from my ITouch, please forgive grammatical mistakes

On Jul 9, 2013, at 8:38 AM, "Linda Dunbrack" wrote:

That is a start, but there are many places on this site that 1) you have not provided the appropriate link back to e-democracy, and 2) you have re-posted entire texts of posts without explicit permission of the author. You either need to get their permission, or remove the text of their post and publish a link to their post.

Based on my conversation with Willie, you don't have his permission to republish his post:


Based on my conversation with Dean and Jane, you don't have their permission to republish their posts:


I haven't heard from Dennis or Jonathan, but I am betting that you don't have their permission either.


I imagine that Harold would give you permission, but you still need to ask. If he wants to give you permission is a global way (i.e. you can repost anything of mine anytime) that would be fine.

Linda Dunbrack-Forum Manager

On 7/8/2013 at 12:03 PM, Joe wrote:
Linda, I did it here. I didn't even quote anything. I linked it. Under "fair use" I can quote any article and make a comment.
This instance I just linked your article. Does this meet your approval?

According to your ever changing rules this meets what you want....
It's linked.

Linda, I'm working with you here.


Sent from my ITouch, please forgive grammatical mistakes

On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:31 AM, "Linda Dunbrack" wrote:



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