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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Stats -- czar, 21:34:50 04/20/03 Sun

>Are you really a complete moron or just trying to portray one. Jordan was ALl MAAC. MAAC is much better then the AE. Obviously the coaches in the league thought he was a Top 15 player in the MAAC. Look at his frosh stats went Loyola was playing normal basketball and not the slow down crap!


Jordan this past season-- 40% from the field, 30%
>from three, less than a 1 to 1 assist to turnover
>ratio. He'll help, no doubt. But the All-America East
>predictions are way premature.
>
>
>
>> You don't have to agree with me, but I believe, in
>>principle, that we are talking about similar
>>situations. Jackette wasn't likely going to put up big
>>numbers, but it seemed like he was going to have a
>>bigger impact. That never really happened. Then along
>>came Flores, and his role decreased. Still, he could
>>have earned more playing time alongside Flores and
>>Greene had he been more consistent. Even as a senior,
>>I thought he was too foul-prone and inconsistent to be
>>really effective.
>>
>> Again, this is about hyperbole, and while you seem
>>more reasonable than the Czar, there is too much
>>hyping of Albany players on this board. I don't buy
>>it. Again, Jordan is a nice pick-up, but I believe his
>>numbers were inflated by playing on a 300+ RPI team.
>>
>> Flores is a nice player, but again, this is the
>>MAAC, not the Big East. He probably would have had a
>>decent career in the Big East had he stayed at
>>Rutgers, but went to a lesser conference, and put up
>>big numbers. A nice player, but he also took a lot of
>>shots and was their focal point on offense. It would
>>have been interesting to see him in the Big East,
>>because his flaws would have been magnified. One of
>>the best in the East? Maybe, but not of the caliber of
>>a Hatten or a Troy Bell.
>>
>>
>>>I totally disagree but I respect your opinion. As a
>>>soph eligibility wise Jackette avg. 11.5 and started
>>>26 games. Along comes Flores at the same size 6'2"
>>>from the Big East and down goes Jackette's role.
>Still
>>>has been a captain for past 2 seasons with numerous
>>>health issues.
>>>Any good 6'2" would have their numbers chopped up if
>a
>>>player of Flores magnitude was brought in, Twice a
>1st
>>>Team All Conference player. Don't be to thick headed
>>>to realize that. I feel Jackettes situation is
>unique,
>>>his numbers weren't due to his lack of ability it was
>>>due to one of the best players in the "East" coming
>in
>>>and taking over.
>>>Rationalize all you want but I have to respectfully
>>>disagree with your logic.
>>>
>>>> I know this Manhattan team very well, and I saw
>>them
>>>>a number of times last year. Colonial to MAAC is a
>>>>lateral move in terms of conference, not a step up.
>>>>Jackette played three years for the Jaspers, and
>>never
>>>>really had the impact he might have been projected
>to
>>>>have. You're only taking his stats from one year;
>I'm
>>>>talking about his performance during all three
>years,
>>>>including his sophomore year, when Manhattan wasn't
>>>>nearly as good as they are now. For my money, the
>CAA
>>>>is probably a better conference than the MAAC. I
>>think
>>>>calling going from the Colonial to the MAAC a
>lateral
>>>>move is very accurate.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line: His stats, playing for a very bad
>>>>team(bottom 30 nationally), were probably inflated.
>>>>Which is why the Jackette example is valid. I'm not
>>>>saying Jackette would or should have been a 20 point
>>>>scorer from Manhattan, but he came from a very bad
>>>>team, and his stats were a bit inflated because of
>>>>that.
>>>>
>>>> As far as being wanted by mid-major teams, I would
>>>>probably agree. However, I am skeptical that UMass
>>>>would want him, and am even skeptical that Fordham
>or
>>>>Hofstra made serious overtures. I haven't seen or
>>>>heard proof of this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Jackette is a poor example William & Mary to
>>>Manhattan
>>>>>is a big step up. (MAAC RPI 16 CAA RPI 18.)Went
>from
>>>a
>>>>>weak CAA team to a very strong MAAC team, only
>>played
>>>>>17 games and started 8 and also played with a 24.6
>>pt
>>>>>scorer.
>>>>>
>>>>>Jordan is a quality player who is better
>>>>>physically(6'2" & 200lbs) than most AE guards. He
>>>>>would be wanted by many Mid-Major teams.
>>>>>
>>>>>How he will play in the AE we have to wait another
>>>>>year. The backcourt of Jamar Wilson and Jordan for
>2
>>>>>years is atleast - very promising.
>>>>>> Jackette is not a poor example. While he has had
>>>>>>injury problems, he has not been hurt for the
>>>>entirety
>>>>>>of his career at Manhattan. He just hasn't made
>the
>>>>>>impact some might have expected based on the
>>numbers
>>>>>>he put up at William and Mary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wilson averaged 20 points as a freshman. Jordan
>>>>>>averaged 13 as a sophomore. Loyola had few scoring
>>>>>>options, and leaned on him a lot. That doesn't
>mean
>>>>>>he's not a nice pick-up; he's just not the second
>>>>>>coming, like you are claiming. But your delusions
>>>>have
>>>>>>been well documented on this board.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Parker was generally regarded as a player who
>>>could
>>>>>>have played at a higher level than a mid-major.
>>>>Jordan
>>>>>>was not. He also came from a conference that is
>>even
>>>>>>better than the MAAC in the Horizon League.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UMass, Fordham, and Hofstra offered? How do you
>>>>>>know? Because the Times-Union said so? Just
>because
>>>a
>>>>>>prospect says these schools were interested does
>>NOT
>>>>>>mean they actually offered him a scholarship. For
>>>>>>someone who purports to be up on the recruiting
>>>>scene,
>>>>>>you should know this. A phone call to a player
>>>>>>exploring the possibility of bringing him on board
>>>is
>>>>>>a far cry from actually extending a scholarship
>>>>offer.
>>>>>>I don't believe UMass offered him, and I am very
>>>>>>skeptical about the other two schools.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jackette is a poor example. He has been hurt
>>at
>>>>>>>Manhattan both years. Look at Parker from
>>>>Hartford.
>>>>>>>Look at Jordan's HS record. Why did UMASS,
>>>Fordham,
>>>>>>>and Hofstra all offer when he got his release?
>IF
>>>>he
>>>>>>>wasn't very talented he would not have been voted
>>>>All
>>>>>>>MAAC! Coaches vote and they vote for the best
>>>>>>>players. I guess Jamar Wilson is a stiff because
>>>he
>>>>>>>got 20ppg this year for Albany because they only
>>>won
>>>>>>>7. What perimeter guy's in the AE are better?
>>>>>>>Probably none and the MAAC is way better then the
>>>>>>AE!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You're not listening to what I am saying. Yes,
>the
>>>>>>>>MAAC is a better league than the America East.
>>>>Let's
>>>>>>>>not make it out to be the Big East, though. It's
>>>>not
>>>>>>>>THAT much of a higher level.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I am saying is Jordan's numbers could
>have
>>>>>>been
>>>>>>>>inflated by playing on a bad team. Here's an
>>>>>example:
>>>>>>>>when Justin Jackette was on a poor William and
>>>Mary
>>>>>>>>team, he averaged 11 or 12 points. When he
>>>>>>transferred
>>>>>>>>to Manhattan, he probably only averaged 6 or 7
>on
>>>a
>>>>>>>>better team in a comparable league. So take
>these
>>>>>>>>numbers with a grain of salt. That being said, I
>>>>>>think
>>>>>>>>Jordan is a nice pick-up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Frosh year = All Rookie Team
>>>>>>>>>Soph year = All MAAC
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>MAAC is a much better league then the AE!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That Jordan played on an awful team that didn't
>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>>too many offensive threats, which explains the
>>>>>>gaudy
>>>>>>>>>>stats to some extent. I think it's a nice
>>>>>addition,
>>>>>>>>>>but let's not get crazy. But the hyperbole is
>>>>>>>vintage
>>>>>>>>>>Czar.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Loyola, MD leading scorer Lucius Jordan has
>>>>>>>decided
>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>transfer to Albany. He averaged 14ppg this
>>>>year
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>>>was 3rd Team All MAAC. He will sit next
>year
>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>>>>2 to play. He is 6'3 205. He has led
>Loyola
>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>>>>scoring both years at Loyola. He was ALL
>>>>ROOKIE
>>>>>>>as
>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>>>Frosh. Great get and an immediate impact!
>>>ALL
>>>>>>AE
>>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>>>two years without question.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Stats -- Ramfan, 22:26:08 04/20/03 Sun

He was THIRD team all-MAAC. Which just as easily could have been a token spot for a Loyola player. You're getting your panties in a bundle over a third team All-MAAC player. Nice accolade. Doesn't neccessarily mean all that much. The MAAC is a better conference than the America East, but you're acting like the kid was All-Conference in the Big East, for Christ sakes.


>>Are you really a complete moron or just trying to
>portray one. Jordan was ALl MAAC. MAAC is much
>better then the AE. Obviously the coaches in the
>league thought he was a Top 15 player in the MAAC.
>Look at his frosh stats went Loyola was playing normal
>basketball and not the slow down crap!
>
>
> Jordan this past season-- 40% from the field, 30%
>>from three, less than a 1 to 1 assist to turnover
>>ratio. He'll help, no doubt. But the All-America East
>>predictions are way premature.
>>
>>
>>
>>> You don't have to agree with me, but I believe, in
>>>principle, that we are talking about similar
>>>situations. Jackette wasn't likely going to put up
>big
>>>numbers, but it seemed like he was going to have a
>>>bigger impact. That never really happened. Then along
>>>came Flores, and his role decreased. Still, he could
>>>have earned more playing time alongside Flores and
>>>Greene had he been more consistent. Even as a senior,
>>>I thought he was too foul-prone and inconsistent to
>be
>>>really effective.
>>>
>>> Again, this is about hyperbole, and while you seem
>>>more reasonable than the Czar, there is too much
>>>hyping of Albany players on this board. I don't buy
>>>it. Again, Jordan is a nice pick-up, but I believe
>his
>>>numbers were inflated by playing on a 300+ RPI team.
>>>
>>> Flores is a nice player, but again, this is the
>>>MAAC, not the Big East. He probably would have had a
>>>decent career in the Big East had he stayed at
>>>Rutgers, but went to a lesser conference, and put up
>>>big numbers. A nice player, but he also took a lot of
>>>shots and was their focal point on offense. It would
>>>have been interesting to see him in the Big East,
>>>because his flaws would have been magnified. One of
>>>the best in the East? Maybe, but not of the caliber
>of
>>>a Hatten or a Troy Bell.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I totally disagree but I respect your opinion. As a
>>>>soph eligibility wise Jackette avg. 11.5 and started
>>>>26 games. Along comes Flores at the same size 6'2"
>>>>from the Big East and down goes Jackette's role.
>>Still
>>>>has been a captain for past 2 seasons with numerous
>>>>health issues.
>>>>Any good 6'2" would have their numbers chopped up if
>>a
>>>>player of Flores magnitude was brought in, Twice a
>>1st
>>>>Team All Conference player. Don't be to thick headed
>>>>to realize that. I feel Jackettes situation is
>>unique,
>>>>his numbers weren't due to his lack of ability it
>was
>>>>due to one of the best players in the "East" coming
>>in
>>>>and taking over.
>>>>Rationalize all you want but I have to respectfully
>>>>disagree with your logic.
>>>>
>>>>> I know ÿ

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Keep in mind.Ramfan - Fine -- Czar, 21:40:03 04/20/03 Sun

> I remember Albany fans hyping up Wilson and Levine. They were only ROY in AE and All Rookie. Wilson also led the AE in scoring for conference games. He had 30 on Syracuse(They won the National Championship). Overhyped? Only if you have no clue! You know what I'm saying RamMan!!!


You don't have to agree with me, but I believe, in
>principle, that we are talking about similar
>situations. Jackette wasn't likely going to put up big
>numbers, but it seemed like he was going to have a
>bigger impact. That never really happened. Then along
>came Flores, and his role decreased. Still, he could
>have earned more playing time alongside Flores and
>Greene had he been more consistent. Even as a senior,
>I thought he was too foul-prone and inconsistent to be
>really effective.
>
> Again, this is about hyperbole, and while you seem
>more reasonable than the Czar, there is too much
>hyping of Albany players on this board. I don't buy
>it. Again, Jordan is a nice pick-up, but I believe his
>numbers were inflated by playing on a 300+ RPI team.
>
> Flores is a nice player, but again, this is the
>MAAC, not the Big East. He probably would have had a
>decent career in the Big East had he stayed at
>Rutgers, but went to a lesser conference, and put up
>big numbers. A nice player, but he also took a lot of
>shots and was their focal point on offense. It would
>have been interesting to see him in the Big East,
>because his flaws would have been magnified. One of
>the best in the East? Maybe, but not of the caliber of
>a Hatten or a Troy Bell.
>
>
>>I totally disagree but I respect your opinion. As a
>>soph eligibility wise Jackette avg. 11.5 and started
>>26 games. Along comes Flores at the same size 6'2"
>>from the Big East and down goes Jackette's role. Still
>>has been a captain for past 2 seasons with numerous
>>health issues.
>>Any good 6'2" would have their numbers chopped up if a
>>player of Flores magnitude was brought in, Twice a 1st
>>Team All Conference player. Don't be to thick headed
>>to realize that. I feel Jackettes situation is unique,
>>his numbers weren't due to his lack of ability it was
>>due to one of the best players in the "East" coming in
>>and taking over.
>>Rationalize all you want but I have to respectfully
>>disagree with your logic.
>>
>>> I know this Manhattan team very well, and I saw
>them
>>>a number of times last year. Colonial to MAAC is a
>>>lateral move in terms of conference, not a step up.
>>>Jackette played three years for the Jaspers, and
>never
>>>really had the impact he might have been projected to
>>>have. You're only taking his stats from one year; I'm
>>>talking about his performance during all three years,
>>>including his sophomore year, when Manhattan wasn't
>>>nearly as good as they are now. For my money, the CAA
>>>is probably a better conference than the MAAC. I
>think
>>>calling going from the Colonial to the MAAC a lateral
>>>move is very accurate.
>>>
>>> Bottom line: His stats, playing for a very bad
>>>team(bottom 30 nationally), were probably inflated.
>>>Which is why the Jackette example is valid. I'm not
>>>saying Jackette would or should have been a 20 point
>>>scorer from Manhattan, but he came from a very bad
>>>team, and his stats were a bit inflated because of
>>>that.
>>>
>>> As far as being wanted by mid-major teams, I would
>>>probably agree. However, I am skeptical that UMass
>>>would want him, and am even skeptical that Fordham or
>>>Hofstra made serious overtures. I haven't seen or
>>>heard proof of this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Jackette is a poor example William & Mary to
>>Manhattan
>>>>is a big step up. (MAAC RPI 16 CAA RPI 18.)Went from
>>a
>>>>weak CAA team to a very strong MAAC team, only
>played
>>>>17 games and started 8 and also played with a 24.6
>pt
>>>>scorer.
>>>>
>>>>Jordan is a quality player who is better
>>>>physically(6'2" & 200lbs) than most AE guards. He
>>>>would be wanted by many Mid-Major teams.
>>>>
>>>>How he will play in the AE we have to wait another
>>>>year. The backcourt of Jamar Wilson and Jordan for 2
>>>>years is atleast - very promising.
>>>>> Jackette is not a poor example. While he has had
>>>>>injury problems, he has not been hurt for the
>>>entirety
>>>>>of his career at Manhattan. He just hasn't made the
>>>>>impact some might have expected based on the
>numbers
>>>>>he put up at William and Mary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wilson averaged 20 points as a freshman. Jordan
>>>>>averaged 13 as a sophomore. Loyola had few scoring
>>>>>options, and leaned on him a lot. That doesn't mean
>>>>>he's not a nice pick-up; he's just not the second
>>>>>coming, like you are claiming. But your delusions
>>>have
>>>>>been well documented on this board.
>>>>>
>>>>> Parker was generally regarded as a player who
>>could
>>>>>have played at a higher level than a mid-major.
>>>Jordan
>>>>>was not. He also came from a conference that is
>even
>>>>>better than the MAAC in the Horizon League.
>>>>>
>>>>> UMass, Fordham, and Hofstra offered? How do you
>>>>>know? Because the Times-Union said so? Just because
>>a
>>>>>prospect says these schools were interested does
>NOT
>>>>>mean they actually offered him a scholarship. For
>>>>>someone who purports to be up on the recruiting
>>>scene,
>>>>>you should know this. A phone call to a player
>>>>>exploring the possibility of bringing him on board
>>is
>>>>>a far cry from actually extending a scholarship
>>>offer.
>>>>>I don't believe UMass offered him, and I am very
>>>>>skeptical about the other two schools.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jackette is a poor example. He has been hurt
>at
>>>>>>Manhattan both years. Look at Parker from
>>>Hartford.
>>>>>>Look at Jordan's HS record. Why did UMASS,
>>Fordham,
>>>>>>and Hofstra all offer when he got his release? IF
>>>he
>>>>>>wasn't very talented he would not have been voted
>>>All
>>>>>>MAAC! Coaches vote and they vote for the best
>>>>>>players. I guess Jamar Wilson is a stiff because
>>he
>>>>>>got 20ppg this year for Albany because they only
>>won
>>>>>>7. What perimeter guy's in the AE are better?
>>>>>>Probably none and the MAAC is way better then the
>>>>>AE!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You're not listening to what I am saying. Yes, the
>>>>>>>MAAC is a better league than the America East.
>>>Let's
>>>>>>>not make it out to be the Big East, though. It's
>>>not
>>>>>>>THAT much of a higher level.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I am saying is Jordan's numbers could have
>>>>>been
>>>>>>>inflated by playing on a bad team. Here's an
>>>>example:
>>>>>>>when Justin Jackette was on a poor William and
>>Mary
>>>>>>>team, he averaged 11 or 12 points. When he
>>>>>transferred
>>>>>>>to Manhattan, he probably only averaged 6 or 7 on
>>a
>>>>>>>better team in a comparable league. So take these
>>>>>>>numbers with a grain of salt. That being said, I
>>>>>think
>>>>>>>Jordan is a nice pick-up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frosh year = All Rookie Team
>>>>>>>>Soph year = All MAAC
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>MAAC is a much better league then the AE!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That Jordan played on an awful team that didn't
>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>too many offensive threats, which explains the
>>>>>gaudy
>>>>>>>>>stats to some extent. I think it's a nice
>>>>addition,
>>>>>>>>>but let's not get crazy. But the hyperbole is
>>>>>>vintage
>>>>>>>>>Czar.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Loyola, MD leading scorer Lucius Jordan has
>>>>>>decided
>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>transfer to Albany. He averaged 14ppg this
>>>year
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>>was 3rd Team All MAAC. He will sit next year
>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>>>2 to play. He is 6'3 205. He has led Loyola
>>>in
>>>>>>>>>>>scoring both years at Loyola. He was ALL
>>>ROOKIE
>>>>>>as
>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>>Frosh. Great get and an immediate impact!
>>ALL
>>>>>AE
>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>>two years without question.

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