Re: UK teachers retrospectively prosecuted for 20th century corporal punishment -- Perspectives on Boys' Spankings 2

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Subject: Re: UK teachers retrospectively prosecuted for 20th century corporal punishment

Author:
Lucas
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Date Posted: 13:28:46 02/07/26 Sat

Mr Simons recently mentioned how anti-spanking attitudes in England (where "reasonable" parental chastisement is still legal) mean that it would be unthinkable for any kind of proper spanking to occur in public or even in semi-public.

I saw today a BBC News article about an 88-year-old former headmaster in Scotland being convicted on charges of what the article describes as "violent abuse" between 1982 and 1992.

The conviction, and the characterisation of it, seem weird to me because at that time school corporal punishment (including quite severe canings or tawsings) was actually legal in Scotland, although I think only in private schools after 1987.

Also, I don't know if the teacher's description wasn't believed by the court, but it sounds like the most moderate corporal punishment regime imaginable:

After saying that, as headmaster, he was the only teacher allowed to spank, because previously teachers had been spanking excessively, he went on:

"I would give them either one, according to the severity of the offence, or two smacks on a clothed behind, with a witness. I would ask the secretary to enter it in the log book.

"I would strike them on the bottom. I used moderate force. I never injured a child. I never left a child with bruising. I considered it to be very reasonable. Token force. I never hit the boys as hard as I could have done. I gave them one slap each with a Slazenger gym shoe."

None of that sounds at all unreasonable. Especially at a time when some private school teachers were giving bare bottom canings, and some schools still allowed prefects to slipper or cane other pupils. And the UK's most popular school TV drama show had an episode where a PE teacher gave a boy a bare bottom slippering in the changing room.

It maybe makes more sense that the criminal charges were because the headmaster also sometimes spanked boys with a belt, which he called "Hungry Horace". (You might remember that the headmaster in Melody called his slipper "Julius Caesar", and an Australian elementary school teacher had a strap that he called "Black Beauty".) One of the witnesses apparently broke down in tears as he described being spanked with the belt.

Which doesn't really make sense if all the other spankings were super extra moderate and all witnessed and recorded in a punishment book etc.?

The police made a statement saying that it had been a "large-scale" investigation. Which seems odd too....

The former headmaster "was cleared of five other charges including endangering the life of a pupil by driving a car at him, and throwing another against a bed."

This all seems very strange to me because it raises the possibility of "double jeopardy" prosecutions of other octogenarians already tried and found innocent of assault by courts last century - just because standards are different now?

I've had reports of BBC News articles being paywalled to USA visitors, so am interested to know if this one is still accessible or not: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c801nl292p4o

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Replies:

Subject Author Date

Re: UK teachers retrospectively prosecuted for 20th century corporal punishment Jerry 14:34:29 02/07/26 Sat

Re: UK teachers retrospectively prosecuted for 20th century corporal punishment -- Mr.E, 16:45:56 02/07/26 Sat

Re: Mr E is eclipsed by the might of the USS Iowa -- Lucas, 17:07:45 02/07/26 Sat

Re: Mr E is eclipsed by the might of the USS Iowa -- Jerry (to Lucas and Mr. E), 17:37:04 02/07/26 Sat

Re: Mr E is eclipsed by the might of the USS Iowa -- Mr Simoms to Jerry, 17:45:07 02/07/26 Sat

Re: Mr E is a 12 year old girl who identifies as a male walrus -- Lucas, 18:03:13 02/07/26 Sat

Re: Mr E is a 12 year old girl who identifies as a male walrus -- Mr Simons to Lucas, 18:15:04 02/07/26 Sat

Re: Mr E is a 12 year old girl who identifies as a male walrus -- Jerry (to Lucas, et al), 18:41:28 02/07/26 Sat

Re: Mr E is a 12 year old girl who identifies as a male walrus -- Mr.E, 00:35:35 02/08/26 Sun

Re: Mr E is a 12 year old girl who identifies as a male walrus -- Mr.E, 00:37:59 02/08/26 Sun

Re: UK teachers retrospectively prosecuted for 20th century corporal punishment Mr Simons 15:15:00 02/07/26 Sat

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>Mr Simons recently mentioned how anti-spanking >attitudes in England (where "reasonable" parental >chastisement is still legal) mean that it would be >unthinkable for any kind of proper spanking to occur >in public or even in semi-public. > >I saw today a BBC News article about an 88-year-old >former headmaster in Scotland being convicted on >charges of what the article describes as "violent >abuse" between 1982 and 1992. > >The conviction, and the characterisation of it, seem >weird to me because at that time school corporal >punishment (including quite severe canings or >tawsings) was actually legal in Scotland, although I >think only in private schools after 1987. > >Also, I don't know if the teacher's description wasn't >believed by the court, but it sounds like the most >moderate corporal punishment regime imaginable: > >After saying that, as headmaster, he was the only >teacher allowed to spank, because previously teachers >had been spanking excessively, he went on: > >"I would give them either one, according to the >severity of the offence, or two smacks on a clothed >behind, with a witness. I would ask the secretary to >enter it in the log book. > >"I would strike them on the bottom. I used moderate >force. I never injured a child. I never left a child >with bruising. I considered it to be very reasonable. >Token force. I never hit the boys as hard as I could >have done. I gave them one slap each with a Slazenger >gym shoe." > >None of that sounds at all unreasonable. Especially at >a time when some private school teachers were giving >bare bottom canings, and some schools still allowed >prefects to slipper or cane other pupils. And the UK's >most popular school TV drama show had an episode where >a PE teacher gave a boy a bare bottom slippering in >the changing room. > >It maybe makes more sense that the criminal charges >were because the headmaster also sometimes spanked >boys with a belt, which he called "Hungry Horace". >(You might remember that the headmaster in ><em>Melody</em> called his slipper "Julius Caesar", >and an Australian elementary school teacher had a >strap that he called "Black Beauty".) One of the >witnesses apparently broke down in tears as he >described being spanked with the belt. > >Which doesn't really make sense if all the other >spankings were super extra moderate and all witnessed >and recorded in a punishment book etc.? > >The police made a statement saying that it had been a >"large-scale" investigation. Which seems odd too.... > >The former headmaster "was cleared of five other >charges including endangering the life of a pupil by >driving a car at him, and throwing another against a >bed." > >This all seems very strange to me because it raises >the possibility of "double jeopardy" prosecutions of >other octogenarians already tried and found innocent >of assault by courts last century - just because >standards are different now? > >I've had reports of BBC News articles being paywalled >to USA visitors, so am interested to know if this one >is still accessible or not: >https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c801nl292p4o
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Subject	Author	Date
Re: UK teachers retrospectively prosecuted for 20th century corporal punishment	Jerry	14:34:29 02/07/26 Sat
Re: UK teachers retrospectively prosecuted for 20th century corporal punishment -- Mr.E, 16:45:56 02/07/26 Sat Re: Mr E is eclipsed by the might of the USS Iowa -- Lucas, 17:07:45 02/07/26 Sat Re: Mr E is eclipsed by the might of the USS Iowa -- Jerry (to Lucas and Mr. E), 17:37:04 02/07/26 Sat Re: Mr E is eclipsed by the might of the USS Iowa -- Mr Simoms to Jerry, 17:45:07 02/07/26 Sat Re: Mr E is a 12 year old girl who identifies as a male walrus -- Lucas, 18:03:13 02/07/26 Sat Re: Mr E is a 12 year old girl who identifies as a male walrus -- Mr Simons to Lucas, 18:15:04 02/07/26 Sat Re: Mr E is a 12 year old girl who identifies as a male walrus -- Jerry (to Lucas, et al), 18:41:28 02/07/26 Sat Re: Mr E is a 12 year old girl who identifies as a male walrus -- Mr.E, 00:35:35 02/08/26 Sun Re: Mr E is a 12 year old girl who identifies as a male walrus -- Mr.E, 00:37:59 02/08/26 Sun

Re: UK teachers retrospectively prosecuted for 20th century corporal punishment	Mr Simons	15:15:00 02/07/26 Sat