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Subject: Bottomless verses naked Author: Joe [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 07:09:16 11/18/25 Tue Author Host/IP: 71.179.1.15 As an older pre-adolescent boy, as I have mentioned in other messages, I was often naked or bottomless at various times (at home, vacation, backyard etc). When just bottomless, I was often more self-conscious and felt more "childish" than when fully naked, especially when in the presence of family and friends, or in public. Did anyone else who experienced both situations feel the same way, and any idea why? You would think it would be the other way around. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> Subject: Re: Bottomless verses naked Author: spelvin [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:17:10 11/18/25 Tue Author Host/IP: 72.78.201.247 Probably because total nudity symbolizes a few other things besides shame. -----Nudity symbolizes spirituality. The Adamites were a Christian sect which sought to reestablish the Garden of Eden in North Africa in the Second through Fourth Centuries. William Blake claimed to commune with the angels while he was nude. -----Nudity symbolizes closeness to nature San Francisco art gallerist Karen Jenkins-Johnson commented, “People living in cities so often forget that we are from nature, and that family bonds and being in the wild are our most natural states, even if most of us don’t live this way now.” -----Nudity symbolizes freedom. This might not be the strongest argument. I find instances of nude children symbolizing freedom, but none of nude adults symbolizing freedom. A bottomless child, on the other hand, is not so glorified. We don’t see very many bottomless subjects in art galleries, either adult or juvenile. I can’t find anything about bottomlessness in my notes. I do remember, however, reading about the Japanese penis festival, which takes place on the first Sunday of April. I remember that someone wrote a message saying that he grew up in Japan, and his relatives made him attend the event bottomless. An image search reveals a few adult males nude or nearly nude. One man wears a Batman mask an a minimal cover for his genitals. Another man wears a Batman mask and sports a hefty erection. I couldn't find any bottomless adults, however. So it is possible that your perception of bottomlessness as more childish than nudity is agreed upon worldwide. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Bottomless verses naked Author: Joe [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:59:09 11/24/25 Mon Author Host/IP: 71.179.1.15 So to Spelvin a think nudism being associated with freedom might be key. I thought about this for a while. Being bottomless is more infantalizing I think because it insinuates parental care and control. This can be true for nudity as well but not necessarily. I sometimes choose to go naked to feel free, but in those situations, why would I have remained only bottomless? Being bottomless meant two things, either I'd be made to put a T-shirt or pj top on for a practical reason (not getting sunburned or staying warm for eg) or I had had my bottoms taken off for some reason (keep shorts and underwear dry when paddling or had been naughty and had a smack bottom for eg). In each case a parent or adult had made a decision and I had been undressed as a small child would be. I did not make the decision. As a good example I recall bottomless in a French village shop because my mum felt I needed a t-shirt to protect my shoulders when we when hiking and I also needed shoes for walking. My white bottom though needed some sun in her opinion and my mom judged a layer of suncream would be enough protection. Hence we went by the shop to get more suncream which was promptly rubbed into my bottom outside the shop after I was given a lollipop. I made no decisions myself, and while I may have been 14 at the time I was basically a little kid only becoming self conscious when I was spun around to have some suncream quickly wiped on my front. The contrast in this example is that had I been "free" to make decisions, I would have just gone naked. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Bottomless verses naked Author: Jumbix [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:32:36 11/18/25 Tue Author Host/IP: 92.180.22.84 As a kid, at home I used to wear JUST some oversized T-shirt as pajamas. My bedtime was always set at 9 PM but my parents sometimes allowed me to hang around till around 10 PM during the weekends. After my bathtime who was around 8 PM, my parents required me to dress only my pajamas T-shirt, even if I was allowed to spend some extra time till my bedtime, soo, basic, that mean that around one or two hours I was let to hang around in bottomless in the house... Even oversized, my pajamas T-shirt wasn't always able to cover me 100%, so sometimes at least my foreskin in the front or/and the base of my buttocks in my back was pretty well exposed especially in some sitting positions or while I was playing on the carpet at TV in the livingroom... Sometimes some guests was able to sow me but also some cousins during some sleepovers... Even if I was doing my best to dress a much better oversized T-shirt able to cover everything, somehow was always obvious that I was bottomless underneath... I always was a bit embarrassed in front of some unexpected visitors, but I used to be ok in front of my best relatives or family friends... Early in the morning , if wasn't harry to go to school, I also used to hang around like this at least during the breakfast in the weekends... This routine was really common for me till I was 14 y.o.... [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Bottomless verses naked Author: spelvin [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:59:02 11/25/25 Tue Author Host/IP: 72.78.201.247 I just thought of a third explanation: ----The torso symbolizes virility. The rump symbolizes childhood and the tyke-sized penis symbolizes childhood. It’s too bad that Shirtless Robbie (2013) wasn’t around. He might have gotten your shirt off for you. He has encouraged his boys to go outside shirtless in warm weather in an effort to help the boys “be comfortable in their skin and develop a positive body image.” When dressing a boy of toddler age in warm weather, he advocates leaving off the boy’s shirt. Robbie believes that fathers should exemplify shirtlessness at home, especially when playfighting with the children, and in performing yard labor. Furthermore, Robbie encourages fathers to enroll their sons in athletic activities where shirtless peers will set an example. A couple of respondents on the quora site have related the torso with masculinity. Habib Ansari (2015) wrote: “Boys . . . seduce with their muscular power, which is mostly in the upper part of the body, i.e., chest, shoulder, biceps.” Robert F. Valerio (2012) wrote: “For men, the emphasis is longer torso, preferably in an inverted triangle with broad shoulders and a narrow waist.” Now to talk about rumps: If you remember the pre-hysteria days, you may remember that family photo albums abounded with pictures of babies’ bottoms. When images of dorsal views of children got published, nobody was shocked. Bayley (1956) noted that children have proportionately larger and rounder rumps than adults. Lorenz (1956, v. 1: 222-223) offered an explanation of why children evolved that way: they’re easily portable that way. That’s why everybody loves little children’s bottoms. Dave (2019, Voy 223876) had a babysitter who frequently patted him on the bottom and told him that he had a cute butt. Dennis (2019, Voy 223876) had a teenage babysitter who said, “You boys have such cute little behinds.” In France, it is customary for nurses giving penicillin shots to children to say, “Honey, you had very cute buttocks.” (jean the Frenchie 2020, Voy 223876) When kid star Shirley Temple visited nursing homes, the elderly residents made such comments as “What a cute bottom!” She later wrote in her autobiography (Black 1988: 392 in hardback, 396 in paperback), “I would have preferred their attention on the front, but whatever made them happy was acceptable to me.” A child’s bottom could serve not only as a conversation piece, but an exhibit. Until Sam (2018, Voy 223876) was 12 years old, his mother would pull down his pants and his underpants to proudly show his rump to her friends. Now to talk about tyke-sized penises: On as trip to the Philippines, Victoria (2020, Voy 223876) saw an annual race in which preadolescent boys competed nude. She wrote, “I must admit it was cute seeing their tiny penises as they stood waiting to start the race.” A little boy's penis with an erection could be even cuter. According to mrs. ladybird (2020, Voy 223876), “an involuntary pre-puberty erection looks much more innocent and cute than the erection of a 14-15 year old, well into puberty.” When Abe (2020, Voy 223876) was 9 years old, he and his 8-year-old cousin had to stand in the bathtub with erections while his aunt snapped pictures to show to her friends. Ansari, H. 2015. [untitled message]. (May 10). https://www.quora.com/Why-are-women’s-shorts-shorter-than-mens-shorts Bayley, N. 1956. Individual patterns of development. Child Development 27: 45-74. Black, S. T. 1988. Child star: An autobiography. New York: McGraw-Hill. Lorenz, K. 1956. Interviewed in Tanner, J. M. & Inhelder, B., eds. Discussions on child development: The proceedings of the first meeting of the World Health Organization Study Group on the Psychobiological Development of the Child, Geneva, 1953. New York: International Universities Press. Shirtless Robbie. 2013. Raising sons. http://shirtlessfreedom.blogspot.com/search/label/children Valerio, R. F. 2012b. [untitled message]. (July 21). https://www.quora.com/Why-are-women%E2%80%99s-shorts-shorter-than-mens-shorts [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Bottomless verses naked Author: spelvin [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 05:17:02 12/15/25 Mon Author Host/IP: 72.78.201.247 Here is an excerpt from a message written by Abhi, recounting his childhood in a village in India: ..................... Mami [Abhi's aunt] changed one routine compared to my grandmother... When I returned home, she would give me only a T-shirt to wear that reached my waist, but nothing underneath. As a result, my penis and buttocks remained only half-covered. And if I raised my hands even slightly, everything would be exposed. I felt even more shy being pantless like this than being completely naked; but if I mentioned it to Mami, she would say, 'Oh please, everyone inside and outside has seen everything already. You are just a child... why are you so shy?' A girl named Tina Didi, who was three years older than me, lived in the house next door. She would occasionally come to our house. Because she saw me wearing just a T-shirt without pants like that, she treated me like an even smaller child. If I tried to say anything to her, she would say, 'You walk around without pants in front of girls and yet you talk back to me? Don't you know I am older than you? Just shut up and do as I say.' [ Post a Reply to This Message ]