[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 12345[6]789 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 10:45
Author: Eponymous
Subject: Re: How About This?
In reply to: Cowboy 's message, "Re: How About This?" on 10:44

I’m reminded of a dialogue attributed to Lincoln and an unknown interlocutor, a dialogue which I’ll paraphrase. Lincoln asked, “If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?” The interlocutor answered, “Why, five, Mr. Lincoln.” To which Lincoln responded, “No, four – calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it one.”

Similarly, calling a state of nonawareness “pure awareness” doesn’t make it a state of awareness. If you want to say that nonawareness is a state of some purported "pure awareness," I don't think there's any meaningful way I can respond. Obviously, I take it for granted that there is a meaningful distinction between awareness and nonawareness. And I take it as an empirical fact that anesthesia (among other things) can induce nonawareness.

To put it into a personal context, when I had my wisdom teeth pulled (all four at once – yikes!), the surgeons put me on a general anesthetic before the operation. My perception was that I closed my eyes and then opened them and the operation was done. I was all of a sudden a bit groggier, but I had absolutely no sense of time having passed, and no recollection of any sort of phenomenal experience whatever. In my case, then, anesthesia induced utter nonawareness during the entire period of the operation. I take as obvious that it did so through some physical mechanism.

Now, if you want to insist, “No, no Mike – you were actually aware during that time; you just didn’t know it because it was PURE awareness!” (or the like), I would have to ask just what mean. And you would have to give a very clear exposition of the idea, because from this distance, the notion seems nonsensical.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]


Post a message:
This forum requires an account to post.
[ Create Account ]
[ Login ]
[ Contact Forum Admin ]

Forum timezone: GMT+0
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.