[ Show ]
[ Shrink ]
Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor
of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users'
privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your
privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket
to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we
also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.
Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your
contribution is not tax-deductible.)
Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):
[ Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 12:42
Author: Brian D.
Subject: Great Love - Satsang With Gangaji
In reply to:
's message, "Online Books from Ananda and Crystal Clarity Publishers" on 12:38
Meeting with Gangaji Excerpt
Boulder, Colorado - April 10, 1995
Questioner: Gangaji, I've just gone through the loss of a great love. One that I've waited a long time for, and I'm having a hard time letting go.
Gangaji: But you just said you lost it.
Well, she left.
What is lost is already gone. What do you mean you're having a hard time letting go?
Even though she's gone, it's something I still cling to.
She is gone, right?
Essentially, half-way, three quarters of the way. (laughter) Is this just my boundless hope?
This is where boundless hope is the door to hell. You are linking her with what you call my great love. This is the experience of hell. You have walked through the portal, through the door of hell, and you are in the midst of hell. You are saying, "My great love is gone."
I am making light of this, but I also appreciate the deep suffering in the experience of losing love. This suffering is based on an enormous mistake. That which is mysteriously evoked in the presence of some being, this great love, can never be lost. You can imagine it to be lost if you imagine it to be located someplace other than where you are. Imagination takes maintenance. You have to be busily working on it through the day and maybe even through the night. This is what you are referring to as having a hard time letting it go. Form comes and goes. What you are having a hard time letting go of is the belief that it is in this particular form that you find your true love, your great love. What is your direct experience of that?
Well, in the beginning it was.
Not in the beginning, right now.
I still have the memory of.
It is not in the memory. We are talking about Great Love. Love cannot be captured by memory. It maybe can be evoked in
memory, but where is the Great Love?
It's in emptiness now.
In my heart.
With your consciousness, why not go into the midst of that emptiness? Fall into emptiness. Surrender your defenses against
it, and tell me more of this emptiness when you are exploring it from the midst, from the core of it.
I have some sense of liberation that arises.
You may have some sense of it, but go deeper into the core, the very core, the very heart of this emptiness, this nothingness. Not from some other time when you have done it, but just now, just here.
I also realize I lost a lot of myself
This statement is a deflection from the experience of this hole of emptiness. Now you are back into imagining what you have lost and what you have gained, but all of that is going on only in your mind, isn't it? It is the mental activity of explanation, justification, and theorizing. There is nothing wrong with that, but there is something else that has not been experienced, and that is death-this hole, this abyss, emptiness itself. In order to avoid experiencing it, you return to some mental play of memories, or description, or self-pity, or blame. Let go of all of that, and simply drop into the direct experience. Let the activity of the mind stop, so that you can meet what you are avoiding meeting.
Of course this takes some courage because to meet this vast emptiness, you have to first of all drop your clinging to some idea of what will save you from that emptiness; her in this instance. With other people it could be something else, some belief system or some hope. In this case, it is hope in the form of her. For an instant just push that aside. You can go back to it later if you like. For this instant, just push it aside, and meet with no hope, with no her, this abyss, this death. Now speak to me from the center of that.
I feel when I try to do that, I'm preventing myself from really feeling.
This is very good to see. What is preventing you? It must be some kind of mental activity. Now you can see even deeper what that activity is. What is it?
It's not knowing who I am.
No, it is not that. Not knowing can't prevent you from anything.
I can't go to the emptiness if I don't no where I am or who I am.
In that moment of not knowing where you are, where is any lack of anything?
I don't know.
What you have just described is freedom, liberation, but that is
not your direct experience. I am saying that in fact you do have some
idea of where you are, and this is what you must let go. That is why I
am directing you into emptiness, the void, the abyss, because in that,
there is no location. If you already have an experience or a realization of no location, then emptiness is just a word. It is meaningless. Abyss is meaningless. In fact, the experience, the realization, is one of bliss, expansion, clarity, no loss, no gain, no hopelessness and no hope needed.
I get a sense of it, but it's a process of letting go.
It is a process of dying, isn' it? Even when I say the word you light up. Because the clinging is to some hope that you will not fall into death, and this occurrence, this circumstance in your life, has actually pierced the veil of defense against death. In the piercing, there is mental scrambling. There is hope for more defense to come in so you don't have to experience this death, but I am saying the great opportunity is to experience that death.
The death of the idea of love, or everything?
Everything. Which means the death of the idea of who you are, where you are, and what you are. With that, of course, also immediately dies the idea of what you need, what you got, what you lost, what you might find, or what you might never recover.
This is a very intense experience in a lifetime. There are two ways to pass time. You can go into suffering, which is passing your time in memory, in fear, in hope, in replaying and searching again to recapture, or you can pass your time in surrender to what this experience has evoked - defenseless-ness, emptiness.
You have chosen the other path many, many times. Everyone has. But here you are in satsang, and you are hearing within your own consciousness the invitation to actually experience emptiness. You are understanding that to experience emptiness you must drop all ideas of location, all ideas of her, and all ideas of you. Just for an instant, push them aside and experience death.
There is a secret that is revealed that I can't teach you. It is revealed. I can point you to it. I can encourage you, but finally, it is for your particular mind-stream. Given what the current of this mind-stream has been, it is very close to experiencing the ocean of consciousness where mind-stream is no more.
Finally, this will be experienced. The opportunity is to experience it now in the midst of suffering. This is the gift of suffering. This is the opportunity of suffering. It is usually missed, so I am asking you for an unusual moment. I will tell you that you can expect all of your instincts, all of your impulses, to say, "No. I must remain 'stream' at all costs - what I've always been, what I've worked at being, what I should be."
"I'm inviting you to fall into the ocean prematurely. You will see it is the greatest opportunity because at the completion of the natural momentum of this lifetime, the dissolution of the body, the dissolution of the memories, you are the ocean. The value of hearing what is being said is to realize ocean before that time comes. In this realization, the most unexplainable secret is revealed.
Of course there are attachments, and of course in attachments, there is suffering. In this suffering, there is the unique opportunity to discover what has been avoided in the hope that whatever you are attached to would save you from suffering. In this discovery, you will see attachments are no problem. Attachments too will serve to deepen the truth of that you have called Great Love.
You will see it. You are a young man. You have seen it, and you will see it more. Things, people, ideas, states, emotions, thoughts, definitions, all come and go. The great realization, the Great Love, is what remains. To discover this you must simply put aside all thoughts. Directly experience whatever it is you are avoiding by mental activity. Directly experience what is deeper than activity . . . and deeper than that . . . and deeper than that.
No one has yet reported an end to this investigation. There is, however, a particular crossing where you realize that what you were calling your life, what you were calling the source of your pleasure, the source of your love, what you imagined to be your needs, get left behind. There is a certain crossing where all that is finished, and you are quite willing to not know where you are. You are quite willing to be that unknown-ness, so that the discovery of who you are is fresh every instant, and every circumstance facilitates that discovery.
This is my great invitation to you from my Master, from his Master, from the Master that is alive in the core of your being. You are free to reject this invitation. It doesn't mean you are wrong or bad. Maybe a little stupid (laughter) but stupid also is not bad. And you are free to accept. Yes! Acceptance has been unusual, and it need not be. It can be the way one passes time. Then you are not reliant on good times, or dreams fulfilled, or past desires being met. All of which can be, and is, quite delightful; but you are not reliant on what is delightful for the deeper discovery of the limitless, boundaryless bliss that you are. The Great Love that you are.
After this discovery you can freely mourn what goes, and you can freely greet in anticipation what comes, because you have realized what remains in the face of all comings and goings. This is something no one can give you and no one can take away. When you realize this, you will fall down prostrate in great adoration of the mystery of this unveiling. This unveiling that actually uses veils, phenomena of all kinds, even misery and suffering, to reveal the absolute pure core of Self-recognition; Sat-Chit-Ananda. Consciousness recognizing itself through the veil of incarnation realizes inherent bliss - Ananda.
Yes, I see you nod. I feel you nod. This is the direction now, and it is a great challenge because of the usual sentimental attachment to suffering. There may even be some eroticism around the suffering, some kind of masochistic pleasure. So realization of truth requires a very clean cut of the self-torture. It requires an end to violence. This is the challenge. We have believed it is certain activities that give us our joy and our pleasure. In realization, this belief is cut. It is a mature realization. Then all is recognized to be the truth of Leela, the expansion of Leela, the play of one's Self, the play of God. Before that you are just entangled in some psychological brouhaha.
How would you describe what would be the first step in controlling desires?
I appreciate the question, but I am not speaking of controlling desires. I am speaking of surrendering to that from which the desire arises. In order to discover where the desire arises, you have to turn right into the desire. The usual is either to be very afraid of our desires or very in love with them. The usual is to indulge desires, and through indulgence finally discover indulgence actually doesn't make for satisfaction. Indulgence makes dissatisfaction more. The demon of desire gets even bigger. We have also attempted to repress desires, to harness and control them. This repression also leads to dissatisfaction. I am speaking of simply diving into the very core of the desire itself.
Some desires will kill you if you dive into them.
No. They may kill you if you indulge them.
That's not what you're speaking of?
I am not speaking of indulging. To dive into is to not move an iota towards the desire or against the desire. It is to actually trace the desire back, with your consciousness, to where it arises. You may have an overwhelming desire for alcohol, or sex, or some other high. So you pursue alcohol, or sex, or some high. You pursue it, and you pursue it, and you realize it is killing you spiritually, physically, and emotionally. What I am speaking of is to stop the pursuing, stop the rejecting, and dive into the actual experience of desire. Why don't you do it right now, and then see what the answer is. Then we are not speaking theoretically.
When you say to go towards it.
I believe you are hearing going towards as feeding the desire, giving it what you imagine it craves. We were using the examples of alcohol, or sex, or some high. I am not saying to give anything. I am saying to stop all giving and stop all taking away, so that you are naked in the power that is arising. In that nakedness, without moving the slightest to feed it, give to it, or to reject it, ignore it, control it, you can discover directly what is at the core of the desire, what is at the root of it. In that, you can discover directly what it is you are really desiring, having nothing to do with alcohol, or sex, or some other high.
I can't figure it out.
That's right. You can't figure it out. You have to hear what is being transmitted on top of and inside these words. I am speaking of a great burning. It is a flame, a great, intense burning, an unusual burning. It is also an immediate, direct shortcut to the realization of that which is permanently, eternally, desireless, in bliss, in consummation with one's Self as love and fulfillment.
Feeding desires can kill you. It has killed you over and over. Rejecting, ignoring, and controlling desires, also has killed you over and over. Now, you can face this death directly. You have learned from many millions of years of evolution about the feeding and rejecting of desires. This is now known. Since it is known, you can now put it aside. What has not been experienced? When I say surrender, I am not speaking of indulgence, acting out, or giving into. I am directing you to the very core of your being. So, what will it be? It is up to you.
The first step then is meditating or just sitting with the desire?
You have already taken the first step, which is the question of what to do about these desires. In your maturity of recognizing actions taken toward desire or against desire, you have discovered what these actions have led to. Feeding, indulging, and repressing are directions of the mind outward in an attempt to handle or take care of desires. The direction I am speaking of is inward to the source of the arising-into the fire, through the fire, not feeding it and not putting it out. You go into it to discover what it is really. Reality is our concern here. Truth means real. What is this really? Who am I really?
For this meeting you can have no reference to past thoughts, past activities, or past conclusions. You must be absolutely still. Stillness means all activity of the mind ceases. Then direct experience reveals what is. There is nothing to do. Just simply stop doing what you have been doing, and then it is quite immediate.
Yes, let me know.
I don' want to part from the theme of relationships. If the ultimate is this relationship with the Self, I'm trying to understand the purpose of relationship to another person.
Relationship is not separate from the Self. If you are hearing Self, and you are taking it to mean a particular body, or a particular mind-set, or a particular cluster of behavior patterns, this is thought of Self, idea of Self, even experience of Self, but it is not the reality of Self. The truth of Self includes all, is the totality of Being.
There is nothing excluded from the truth of Self. Otherwise, we are just speaking of narcissism. Then it is, "I am great. I don't need anybody or anything." The truth is, "I am nobody. I am nothing," and this nobody, this nothing, is boundless consciousness Itself. It is the revelation of one's true identity as totality. Myself, yourself, it is all the same Self. Essentially, all is the same Self. Enemy, friend-same Self. Wife, husband, lover-same Self. Insect, animal, plant-same Self. Self is the totality of Being. Since in truth you are that Self, that totality, you can realize yourself as That even through the veils of the experience of yourself as something in particular. This is great, good news.
There is nothing wrong with the experience of particular or different being. It is just an experience. It is actually quite an extraordinary experience. It is the experience of individuation. It is only limited if you believe it to be the limit of who you are. The opportunity is to discover that this experience of individuation is simply an appearance in who you really are. There is nothing wrong with it. There is nothing right with it.
Don't you know that this is the truth? Deeply you must know this. With no proof in your mind, you still deeply resonate with this. I am not speaking of hope. There may be great hope that it is true, but the resonance of truth is deeper than the hope.
Yes, there is that which I know deeply, but to live it is a challenge for me.
The challenge is surrendering to That. It is a great challenge. What a challenge! Don't you like a challenge? Of course you do.
Of course I do.
Yes! It is a great challenge. It goes against the whole tide of conditioning. This is the invitation to satsang. It is not an escape from the challenges or a hope that you can be defended against the challenges. It is a penetration into the depth and the core of the challenge to see what already exists pure and unchallenged, with no need of defense, of protection, or even of maintenance. That which is one's Self.
When you are ready to meet this challenge, you are finished with your whining about why, and them, and me, and should have, and could have. You are finished. You meet the challenge unknown and unmoving. Time passes through that. See for yourself.
I know sometimes people have an infantile idea that a spiritual life is something like going A,B,C,D, and then you close it up. Then you are very good, and then you go to sleep. A true spiritual life is the absolute realization of the fullness of the totality of Being as discovered in the heart of emptiness. Every moment of every day is a vehicle for that. Good times are a beautiful, pleasant vehicle. Bad times are a horrible, unpleasant vehicle. All is a vehicle for realization.
This particular individuation experiences much frustration because it knows of boundlessness but identifies with the illusion so much of the time.
G: I'm sure everyone can relate to this. First of all, you have glimpsed the boundlessness, so now you must give this glimpse more weight than you are giving the frustration. Just for a moment, acknowledge the sublime grace that allows you to say with all clarity and without pretense that you have experienced boundlessness. What a blessed life this is; what a graced life. Then, from some past identification there arises some idea that something should be different from the way it is, that some experience should be constant. There is a scrambling in mental activity to either get something back or keep something away. In this case, frustration is what arises. Then let frustration be the fire. Jump into the fire. Don't try to fix the frustration. Don't try to ignore it, overcome it, or control it. Directly experience frustration. Discover who is really frustrated.
I could be wrong, but I feel like I've been sitting in this fire for a long time.
G: That is correct. You are wrong. Because to sit in this fire for even an instant reveals there is no one here. There is only limitless boundlessness. So if you feel you have sat in it for a while, recognize that you are sitting in some idea of it, usually with some idea of getting out of it. All of this presupposes some entity that is located someplace. When you ask yourself who is frustrated, what happens to that presupposition. What happens to the idea of someone sitting in frustration?
Once again, I am speaking of death. I am speaking of asking yourself, "What if for every instant for the rest of the days of this particular experience of individuation there is only total, absolute frustration?" Do you see what a relief this is? For an instant, if you will stop fighting it, you will see what exists even in the core of frustration. Then you directly discover the unreality of this entity you imagine to be who you are! Don't waste a moment on postponing this jump into the fire.
I am happy to see you as you are; shining. Whether you know you are shining or not, you are shining. You see what I am seeing, and you will spend the rest of this life seeing that in all of its forms, pleasant and unpleasant, so-called beautiful and so-called ugly; this shining Sat-Chit-Ananda.
Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |