Re: Already determined the outcome? -- Mamusz' Restoration Forum

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 15:38:36 03/11/11 Fri
Author: George
Subject: Re: Already determined the outcome?
In reply to: Lois 's message, "Re: Already determined the outcome?" on 10:33:36 03/11/11 Fri

>>>>>> >>>h
>>>>t
>>>>>t
>>>>>>>>>>Journeying Toward a USA National Conference
>>>>>>BY THE USA APOSTOLIC TEAM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Q: Has church leadership already determined the
>>>>>>outcome on issues of same-gender marriage and
>>>>>>ordaining people in same-gender relationships?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A: No, church leadership is committed to
>>discernment
>>>>>>leading to the USA National Conference. This
>>process
>>>>>>will include spiritual practices, dialogue,
>>>scripture
>>>>>>reflection, and study of credible resources that
>>>>>>provide multiple perspectives on human sexuality
>>and
>>>>>>healthy, faithful, and committed relationships.
>>>>>>--------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't believe that. Does anybody reading this
>>>>>>believe that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Lois
>>>>>Eight and counting. James Slauter is president
>of
>>>>>the Council of Twelve.
>>>>>------
>>>>>
>>><
>>>>/
>>>>>a>
>>>>>Community of Christ, Fort Collins, CO, November
>>2010,
>>>>>The Communicator, pages 1-2
>>>>>
>>>>>Beck and Coopwood Attend 2010 GALA Retreat
>>>>>
>>>>>�The weekend�s theme �Living in the Light� was
>>>>>beautifully orchestrated by frequent references to
>>>>>local native lore and symbolized throughout our
>time
>>>>>together. Our guest ministers were Apostle James
>>>>>Slauter, president of the Council of Twelve and
>>>>>Kathy Slater, president of the Greater Northwest
>>>>>Mission Center.�
>>>>>
>>>>>�Additional sessions included a discussion of the
>>>>>church�s new Sexual Ethics Statement, which
>>is
>>>>>soon to be published in the Herald and the
>>procedures
>>>>>and preparations being done by World Church leaders
>>>>>for the upcoming 2012 USA Conference.�
>>>>>------
>>>>>
>>>>>Submitted by Lois
>>>>>
>>>>>Orlando Community of Christ News, May 2004, Issue
>6,
>>>>>page 1
>>>>>
>>>>>Listening Circles Introduced to the Congregation
>>>>>
>>>>>On Sunday, May 16th, Pastor Andrea Henson,
>>>>>co-facilitated by Pat McKay, introduced the concept
>>>of
>>>>>Listening Circles to the congregation.
>>>>>The World Church has requested that we form these
>>>>>circles in our congregation (6-10 people each) for
>>>the
>>>>>purpose of listening to each other in a safe, non
>>>>>threatening environment. Listening Circles are a
>>tool
>>>>>that can be used to discuss any difficult
>>>>issue. The
>>>>>World Church has requested that the issue of
>>>>>homosexuality in the Community of Christ be our
>>first
>>>>>focus
>>>>
>>>>"First focus" or only focus? Seems like the latter
>>>>would be more accurate wording.
>>>>
>>>>George
>>>
>>>George,
>>>
>>>I agree. From at least 2002 I think homosexuality has
>>>been the number one focus of the institution which
>>>calls itself the Community of Christ. Christ has
>>>nothing to do with it or them.
>>>
>>>Lois
>>>
>>>
>>>Lois
>>
>>Lois, when the name was changed, it should have been
>>changed to "The Reorganized Church of Judas Christ of
>>Homphiliacs."
>>
>>Why? Everything seems to be all about using subterfuge
>>to throw everyone else in the ditch, in order to get
>>what one wants. There are no rules anymore -- only
>>expedience. As I have mentioned before, there are
>>several denominations that are prohomosexual, or
>>exclusively homosexual, but they make no secret of it.
>>The "secret" part is where the evil comes in. "Don't
>>ask, don't tell" is actually the de facto motto of the
>>church: Don't ask the leaders what they are up to,
>>becauae they won't tell.
>>
>>I suspect that may be one of the reasons that Wally
>>left. He would have some idea of the big push to
>>legitimatize homosexuality that is now under way. With
>>you knowing about it from GALA bragging on their
>>website about it, there is precious little that Wally
>>could say to divert attention elsewhere. Too much to
>>explain. Too much to "not tell."
>>
>>George
>
>George,
>
>It is called cowardice. When Section 156 was new I
>knew of a person who said they (gender nonspecific to
>protect identity) didn't believe that God called women
>to the priesthood. But if anyone repeated what "they"
>had said, that "they" would deny it.
>
>When a c-not-of-c member says, "�Christ calls us to
>serve, but gives us our agency", that means they think
>it is O.K. to be a practicing homosexual in the
>priesthood. That means they are on board with the
>agenda.
>
>Lois
>
>Lois

The extreme lengths that all parties involved have gone to break the rules and get away with it (either by gross technicality or simply secrecy) demonstrate clearly that the leadership has absolutely NO reason to expect that anyone else will obey the rules. He who plays dirty in a game with no referee -- and this is what this is -- gets himself a dirty game.

It's like Jimmy Doolittle's raid over Japan in in the first half of 1942. The Japanese had no idea that when they bombed U.S. territory in December 1941 that they would be getting their own territory bombed less than six months later. That's one thing the leadership has in common with the Imperial Japanese. They think tht it's o.k. for them to lie, sneak around, and act by stealth, but when someone does it to them, they cry foul and run around hollering.

The Japanese people got a good look at the hurt created by authoritarian leaders who walk all over their own people and everyone else "for their own good."

Only a complete fool would cite his or her priesthood authority to attack other people in the name of Jesus Christ, and then turn around and tell those people "Judge not, lest ye be judged," and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." That's like saying, "Because I baptized you in the name of Jesus Christ, I can screw you over and do things to you that you can't do, because Jesus wouldn't do them either."

Jesus never excommunicated anybody.
Jesus never silenced anybody.
Jesus never locked anybody out of their meetinghouse.
Jesus never sued anybody to take their house.
Jesus never sold off a building that other people had worked and slaved to pay for and build.
Jesus never performed a same-sex shacking up ceremony.
Jesus never invited a marxist terrorist to speak in the temple.
Jesus never told anybody to pay up their tithing or get the h*** out.
Jesus never ordained a woman.
Jesus never resigned his post as the head of the church, citing "bad personal choices."

How are we to view the socalled authority of those who do these things in Jesus' name, and tell us that we can't oppose them because we believe in Jesus? It's like the local bullies in the movie "Witness," who constantly harrassed the Amish because they wouldn't fight back. That is, until the "cousin from Ohio" showed up.

And how are we to view their penchant for secrecy? especially when the Bibles says the folowing: Jesus answered him, I spoke openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, where the Jews always resort; and in secret I said nothing. (John 18:20) Jesus told individuals to pray in secret, but he insisted that teachings about doctrine had to be open and public. Comparing the leadership's behavior and what they say behind closed doors to what they say in public and to what the church's "official" teachings are, there is a lot of secret doctrine there.

George

George

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

Re: Already determined the outcome? -- George, 21:38:13 03/11/11 Fri

Re: Already determined the outcome? -- Lois, 00:24:01 03/12/11 Sat

Re: Already determined the outcome? -- George, 10:28:14 03/12/11 Sat
- Re: Already determined the outcome? -- Lois, 11:10:37 03/12/11 Sat
  - Re: Already determined the outcome? -- George, 13:29:48 03/12/11 Sat

False Alarm -- George, 13:46:36 03/12/11 Sat