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Date Posted: 13:35:41 04/22/02 Mon
Author: toosh
Author Host/IP: dhcp024-209-033-060.neo.rr.com / 24.209.33.60
Subject: Rx's.....physician's....addiction......and thinking aloud!

Morning gang....hope everyone had a nice weekend and a good up and coming week!

Just thinking aloud here....being a recovering addict..addicted to pain medication and seeing medication discussed often over time here, just wanted to post a little something.

Some of us here...hell, let me go out on a limb and even say ALOT of us here, have had past issues with drugs of one kind or another (alcohol and pot included). Add to that the fact that we are in a "medicated generation"....where everytime something bothers us we reach for a pill, I think we need to be somewhat careful. When we talk about going on treatment....we are talking about a process that is on-going for a year or so....a long time. Alot of us that have had drug problems in the past do NOT have the luxury of keeping some of the more addictive medications laying around the house. I guess what I'm trying to say is...people...PLEASE be careful! It is soooo easy to fall back into our old habits. Even if our "drug of choice" at one time may have been alcohol...having narcotics (pain pills) or sleeping pills etc. etc. around the house brings on similar feelings and before one knows it you can be off and running with a bad ass addiction....not even realizing what is going on. Pain pills especially can get a hold of you before you even know it....BOOM!

Physician's these days are also VERY careful. When a patient comes in and consistantly asks for pain meds etc...a red flag goes up and before long they are labeled as "drug seekers". I am NOT saying that is right, because if anyone knows it's I....what it's like to be a recovering addict and have medication withheld when you REALLY need it. On the other hand...I have even found MYSELF asking for meds for pain before I've tried taking a simple Tylenol or Ibuprophen. Please folks....just be careful and be aware. I love you all and I don't want to see anyone having to deal with going thru withdrawal from a prescription medication on top of having to deal with their hcv.

I am a living, breathing example. At the present I am still taking methadone....I do not have that luxury that I spoke of...not a good idea to keep a bottle of heavy narcotics in the house. My mantra was always "if one is good FOUR are better!" Soooo....I take my methadone like I take my insulin, something that I do that helps me to live at the moment....but that's another story for another day, perhaps. I envy the "normal" people...that can actually take whatever they have to, do what they're supposed to and have no problems. Unfortunately...the other side of that is that I've watched so many of my friends that had problems with alcohol...start taking something for pain and become addicted.

I love you guys, so please...Be Careful and Be Aware......Carol

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Replies:

[> Howdy Pahdner -- Susie, 13:47:05 04/22/02 Mon (bgp425870bgs.union01.nj.comcast.net/68.36.197.75)

Carol, thanks for this great reminder. Your points are well-taken and we do need to be reminded at times. I think your suggestion about trying a tylenol first is something that is so important. Every time I reach for the vicodin I stop myself and try the plain tylenol first and you know it does work so often.

I, too, have a jumble of feelings about "drug seeking" and the doctors who will not respond to a patient who is truly in need. I don't know the answer to this. But I hope that a patient will try the less harmful and addictive meds before they say to their doc that they need a narcotic. I think if they truly try first, they may be pleasantly surprised. And if it doesn't work, they can honestly tell their physicians.


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[> [> it's funny...... -- toosh, 13:51:45 04/22/02 Mon (dhcp024-209-033-060.neo.rr.com/24.209.33.60)

I would have NEVER admitted this "back then", but when I really and truly did have pain...after i got "clean" I realized for alot of the severe pain that Ibuprophen really did work better then the narcotics. I was a "Dr. shopper" for many years....I would say at one time I was going to a good TEN dr's and getting pain meds from all of them! another scary aspect to that, other than the obvious, is that if one is REALLY in pain....needs surgury or something, your tolerance is up so high that nothing works! Oy...the stories I could tell you! Thanks, Sus.....Carol


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[> [> [> I really do know how to spell "surgery", lol! *blush* -- toosh, 14:00:12 04/22/02 Mon (dhcp024-209-033-060.neo.rr.com/24.209.33.60)


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[> Point well taken. That's why I insisted on Darvon's. They're so weak Tylenol works better. -- Anna, 14:22:43 04/22/02 Mon (ip68-1-115-246.pn.at.cox.net/68.1.115.246)

On the other hand, aren't we supposed to be careful about ibuprofen, tylenol & such, esp. the non-steriodal anti-inflammatories?


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[> [> Tylenol Has a Bad Rap -- Susie, 14:29:17 04/22/02 Mon (bgp425870bgs.union01.nj.comcast.net/68.36.197.75)

It is actually the drug of choice for heppers. In proper dosage and without alcohol, it is one of the safest drugs for heppers.


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[> [> [> Re: Tylenol Has a Bad Rap -- Kaathryn, 00:02:40 04/25/02 Thu (spider-to041.proxy.aol.com/152.163.204.61)

YES...... YES......... YES!!!!!! Stay as far away from anti-inflamatory meds........ and.. tyelenol.......
I take Daarcovette N....... it works!!!!!1 But..... I take Flexirill with it........ it's a very good muscle relaxer and it works well with Darvocette N.
HOwever, I am on those meds because of the spinal surgery I had 4 months ago......... but ya know what? They help alot of other pain too.
Ask your doc......... Vicodin is NOT asprin related either.
Kathryn


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[> family -- Donna, 14:40:29 04/22/02 Mon (pawilk-tnt2-50-36.sunlink.net/64.41.50.36)

i spoke to dr about antidepreesers he will order something but he scares me he put the q in quack lol lol


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[> [> Donna -- Susie, 14:43:38 04/22/02 Mon (bgp425870bgs.union01.nj.comcast.net/68.36.197.75)

Don't be scared. anti-depressants are a must for many of us on treatment. I never had a problem with any of them. Most people do just fine with their anti-d's!


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[> Re: VERY TRUE. . -- sg, 15:56:21 04/22/02 Mon (Toronto-HSE-ppp3662970.sympatico.ca/65.95.154.73)

Truer words were never spoken.

It is very easy to slip back to old ways. When I was in the hospital you couldn't pry the self administering morphine button outta my hand (it was joke with everyone that saw me). Even though I used it less the the doctors encouraged me to, I missed it when they took it away. Today I found myself instructing the lab technician taking my bloodwork. I hate to tell you what I experienced with interferon injections (other than the sides).

It is so easy to fall back on old ways that one must always be careful.

sg


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[> Re: Rx's.....physician's....addiction......and thinking aloud! -- William, 16:09:32 04/22/02 Mon (spider-mtc-tc024.proxy.aol.com/64.12.105.159)

Thanks Toosh, it is always nice to know that people here are honest about what is going on in thier lives. Fought addictions for 28 years and finally [with a little help of the great 12step prog] been freed of the obsession to use.

I too was on Methadone for approximately five years and the detox from that was not something that I would ever wish to endure again. That and benzo's were about two months in course to feel even half way decent again. That is my story and I'm sticking to it.

God bless you, and remember " Just for today"

Respectfully:

William


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[> I think I can speak to this.... -- teegs, 16:30:54 04/22/02 Mon (NoHost/12.96.202.1)

cuz this one bit me in the ass, recently. I had been clean and sober from the mid 70s, and then I did combo in 1999. I had thought, well, all that is behind me. HA! I had such bad bone pain and migraines that I ate pain pills like m&ms. I got real stupid. I quit a job that I had almost 10 years in. Got another job and quit that one too. Last Mother's day I woke up in the emergy room, about a hair away from not waking up at all. Before waking up, I spent 4 or ? days in a drug induced black out during which time I just continued to take more drugs (and to this day have NO memory of). My 6 year old niece found me and her mom called the ambulence. When I got home from the hospital I had a letter from my (then) employer asking me not to come in again (ever). So I've had a struggle this past year keeping a roof over my head, and food and gaining some sanity.

May 13th is my one year clean date. I got sucked back in big time, and am counting my blessings today. And I'm especially warry of the harm opiates cause. Not everyone has an addictive personality, but opiates ARE my downfall.

Teegs

p.s. I haven't had one migraine since I stopped taking the vicodin.


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[> [> Re: Cunning, Baffling, and {{{{POWERFUL}}}}. -- William, 16:50:04 04/22/02 Mon (spider-mtc-tc024.proxy.aol.com/64.12.105.159)

Thanks for your post. You see, it is my belief that my drug and alcohol problems were but a symptom of a deeper problem. ME. LOL. That was the bottom line.

My thinker was so out of whack from using some sort of substance since the age of twelve on;[now 47]. Not wishing to deal with life on life's terms was at the root of my problems. That and I externalized everything. It was always a person, place, thing, or situation that was the problem and that kept me from looking inward to the real problem, as well as the final solution that would free me from the bondage of self.

Sorry to get carried away, however being at death's door many times has given me a whole new outlook on life. It is such a relief to awaken daily and have a choice as to whether or not to pick up. Life has daily miracles unfold for me. Though I am still in the grip of the Hepatitis C, and all of its physical manifestations, the peace and serenity that I experience far surpasses anything that a drug, drink, shot, or whatever may bring. Not to say that all is peaches and cream, however it is so much better to be SOBER.

God has done for me what I could never have imagined to do for myself.

Peace be with you and thank you again for the honesty.

Bless you and yours.

Respectfully:

William


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[> [> [> Thanks, Willliam.......... -- teegz, 17:32:46 04/22/02 Mon (NoHost/12.96.202.1)

I am as open about this as I am about my HCV, to a fault some may say. I'm doing all of the things I need to; meetings, sponser, steps, and learning to have fun in recovery. God has blessed me, and given me back my life (only better!).

((((((((((((((((William)))))))))))))))))


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[> Just one little question,,,,or two -- Anna, 21:18:32 04/22/02 Mon (ip68-1-115-246.pn.at.cox.net/68.1.115.246)

Where does pot fit in all this? Is it a yay or nay?


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[> [> For me......it's a nay. -- toosh, 22:18:07 04/22/02 Mon (dhcp024-209-033-060.neo.rr.com/24.209.33.60)

Pot is one of my bigger "triggers"....I smoked pot for years and years, but I also did my pain pills with it. I also get my urine tested and MUST be 100% "clean" to maintain my "take at home" methadone. that means that I cannot even chance being in the same room as someone smoking pot.

I also feel that if someone is to the point where they cannot eat or keep down food, that there are some medical benefits to marijuana. I was so sick at one point...dropped down to 86 lbs and my Dr. put me on Marinol....at that time it saved my life. HOWEVER....I was not a mother at the time and cannot fathom watching Maya at her rambunctious 6 years of age and being that "stoned". Like anything....it's a very individual choice. I do think that when one is in "recovery"....and especially in the early stages of it...that pot is something to be avoided....Carol


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[> [> Re: Just one little question,,,,or two -- William, 01:20:14 04/23/02 Tue (spider-mtc-th064.proxy.aol.com/64.12.102.49)

Gee, Toosh, I was on the clinic here in Florida and smoked reefer for almost thirty years daily. That was the one thing that this particular facility did not test for. I was clean of all narcotics for three years and was allowed six take homes weekly and for the most part took it as prescribed. That in itself was not too amazing as after the first year it had little effect, or so I thought.

Yes reefer was a biggie for me, for I figured as long as I was not drinking or shooting dope I was OK. LOL. Yeah, that is the type of thinking that was prevalent with me. Well, not anymore. I do at least one meeting daily, also have a sponsor, joined a group and try to be active in the rooms and with other addicts and alcoholics. Well that is my story. God bless all of you fellow and fellowettes.

Respectfully:

William


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[> maahhhvelous points Chava!! Thanks for helping keep the guard up. -- terry, 22:45:05 04/22/02 Mon (sg24.merr.com/209.83.14.155)


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[> Well, here i am - Ms. Controversial...... -- Perry, 02:24:13 04/23/02 Tue (netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net/209.240.222.32)

As many of you know, pot has always been my drug of choice all my life. I gave it up for a long time - tried every anti-depressant my shrink had in his arsenal and nothing worked. Last year when i was on tx i needed some help with the depression, anxiety, and loss of appetite so what works better than pot? For me - nothing. I smoked a little every day on tx and it helped me a LOT. A few months ago i decided it was time to quit - i was off tx and had no excuse to keep smoking so my doc prescribed Zanax - BAD MOVE! After a very short time i found myself eating them like candy - and NOW i'm trying VERY hard to wean myself off them with the help of Neurontin (a drug that makes me more fuzzy-headed than the pot). Go figure...........Draw your own conclusions, folks. I'll go one step further - if it were not for pot i would probably be dead now because i only drank when i was out of pot. I have a bottle of Percoset sitting here that i have not touched since i filled the presription (i DO love opiates too) but i'd give my eye teeth for a joint right now. Here's the problem - i'm stage 4 so is it safer for my liver to smoke a joint or be popping all these pills prescribed by my doctor? I asked my hepatologist that exact queston just a few weeks ago - he kind of raised one eyebrow (like Mr. Spock) and told me to use my own best judgement.......in other words, he really couldn't come right out and say it BUT he thought the pot was safer than Zanax addiction. I know it's better for my well-being. I can quit pot at the drop of a hat but this Zanax is kicking my butt. Sorry to go on so long here - i think every person is so individual and i'm in big trouble now trying to follow doctors orders. We'll have to see how this all works out. If i had a joint i'd be sleeping right now.........


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[> [> Ms. Controversial...... -- teegz, 16:17:59 04/23/02 Tue (px119.sunh.com/12.96.202.119)

Hi Perry

My sister has tried so many anti-depresants it makes my head spin (her too!). The only thing that 'snaps' her out of it is pot. I don't see it myself, never really even liked it. Give me a quarter bag of chiva and I'm fine, but don't blow smoke up my ....

I don't really have any advice for you, but maybe you could meditate on it, try some tai chi classes or some other means of achieving serenity.

Susan


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[> [> [> Thanks (((Teegs))) -- Perry, 09:30:07 04/24/02 Wed (netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net/209.240.222.32)

I know i don't have to tell you anything about this struggle. I'm determined to win - by any means necessary. I studied TaiChi many years ago but the forms are difficult for me now (bad knees) so i'm trying yoga. If THAT doesn't help there is always chocolate ;-)


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[> [> In a perfect world. . . -- Poppie, 16:39:22 04/23/02 Tue (adsl.186.154.willamette.net/207.189.186.154)

you would just waltz through life happy and productive and content without any. . .enhancement at all. We all think that if we could just get it right, then that's the way it would be. Life's tough and sad and joyous all at once and nerve wracking - don't forget THAT, lol. IMHO, if a toke a day keeps the monsters at bay, where's the harm? I hear what others are saying, that it could/would trip them up, but it doesn't sound like that is your story, Bonnie. QOL, hell, sleep is kinda important. It is about balance and maybe THAT is the ultimate question - can you keep it balanced.
I smoked pot for years, too (who didn't, eh). Haven't smoked it in years now. Stopped the first chance I got (sounds funny, but I never liked the way it made me feel - except sex - but I did it cause all my buds did it - which says it all about ME) and haven't revisited it since, save once a few years back at a party - was curious to see if it still affected me the same and it did. One forms opinions around life experiences and pot has always seemed pretty benign to me. Its non-addictive characteristic is nice. Everyone has to figure this life out for themself - including what to and what not to ingest, what works and what doesn't. And to let go of the concept of perfection or at least someone else's idea of what perfection is.

Comfort to you sweetie.


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[> [> (((Poppela)))) - i have MISSED you SOOOO much!!!! -- Perry, 09:37:44 04/24/02 Wed (netcache-1112.public.svc.webtv.net/209.240.222.32)

Like i said - we're all different. For me pot is NOT a trigger. If i have pot i have no need for anything else. Only 2 things worry me about pot - #1 - It's ILLEGAL and i don't wanna end up in the pokey.......#2 - It would keep me off the transplant list (IF G-d forbid i should ever need to be there).........so i'm just gonna have to suck it up and deal with it - and i will. But enough about me - HOW ARE YOU?????????


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[> Oxycontin -- yvonne, 17:04:04 04/23/02 Tue (ip-64-38-160-79.dialup.ncia.com/64.38.160.79)

I have been reading this post for two days debating on whether I should reply or not.Well,Toosh,I still got the 'oxy blues'.Can't seem to shake 'em.The doc that originally prescribed them left the office unexpectedly(?) last month,so don't know how the new doctor will feel about me being on them for so long.I tried getting the other doc to prescribe methadone,but he refused.Maybe the new one will be a little more cooperative.Ya know I beat alcohol 9yrs ago(June 17),this is so much more powerful!!

You are so right...this all started out with several knee surgeries three years ago and has turned into hell!!


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[> [> This happened to a friend of mine. -- Cat, 08:31:22 04/24/02 Wed (NoHost/156.63.134.4)

It had her almost over night. She kicked it, but it didn't sound like a good time. Oxy is a very powerful drug, one I'm staying the hell away from.


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[> [> Re: Oxycontin -- William, 23:44:39 04/26/02 Fri (spider-ti053.proxy.aol.com/152.163.194.198)

Any and all narcotics are wonderful agents for the relief of moderate to severe painful conditions. However the other side of this is that they are physically, and psychologically addicting. Oxycontin's have certainly been sensationalized in the news lately, though for one I see little difference between them and MS Contin. That is time released morphine sulphate. However it is the new drug of choice for addicts.

Whatever happened to Heroin? Has it been completely replaced by the Oxycontin monster? Let's be serious. I was on Methadone for approximately five years, and I would take the withdrawal from opiates any day. Ten days of pure hell with drugs in the morphine class, however with meathadone it took me about two months to feel halfway human. I was taking it for the sole purpose of staying off other drugs in the narcotic class, such as morphine, dilaudid, hydrocodone, oxycodone, and a plethora of other substances.

Although the reason for taking methadone was for maintainance purposes, the arthritis pain in my lower back was completely alleviated by the continous administration of this drug. It is written in the medical literature that if one takes these medications as prescribed that the chance of becoming addicted is about seven percent, or something to that effect. Not really sure as my particular case was for effect only.

It should also be noted that during the last two years of maintainance I was also taking Xanax, and Restoril. Both in the class of drugs know as benzodiazipines. Merely walking, was pure agony for me the first two months, as I have previously stated. Currently, I am dealing with a great degree of pain, though it is far better than the pain of addiction to these substances.

Perhaps the fact that this has been an ongoing problem for almost thirty years needs to be discussed to a slight degree. Starting with alcohol at the age of about twelve years and progressing through the various stages of addiction makes it imperatiive that I no longer use any mood altering substances including marijana which was a daliy undertaking for almost thirty years; for relief pain, or simply for pleasure.

This merely is my story, and for those that are safely able to use any of these substances I have no problem. Actually I have no problem with people that use and do have a problem with it, for it is enough of a problem in and of itself for them. I refuse to be judgemental in any regard. It is such a rellief that I have been freed of the need to start my day with some sort of substance that no matter what life is better.

Life is complicatd enough for me straight. Hope that this does not deter those that are truly in need seeking relief from painful conditions in whatever medications that are available to them.

I believe that medicating oneself to enhance the quality of life is a personal choice, but should be undertaken judiciously. Thank you for letting me express my beliefs here as usual.

AGAPE dear friends, and may God bless all of your efforts.

Respectfully:

William


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