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Date Posted: 18:47:51 03/21/02 Thu
Author: Òðåéòÿê
Subject: Re: Êîíòðàð´óìåíòè íà "êîçàöüêèé Òàë³áàí"
In reply to: Ëåì 's message, "Re: Êîíòðàð´óìåíòè íà "êîçàöüêèé Òàë³áàí"" on 14:37:46 03/21/02 Thu

-- Ñïîä³âàþñÿ, öå íå ëåêö³¿ Êë³ìîâà ç âèùî¿ ñîö³îëî㳿?:))

òà í³, çâè÷àéíî :)

-- Áëóä ³ ìîðäîá³é. Àëå æ ñïðàâà íå â òîìó, òè âñå çâîäèø äî ïîáóòîâî¿ ïðîçè:(

Ìåòàô³çèêà çàâæäè âèðîñòຠç ïîáóòîâî¿ ïðîçè, ç ÷àñîì.

-- Òà, í³, ó íàðîäí³é òâîð÷îñò³ âñå â³äáóâàºòüñÿ ³íàêøå, âîíà íå º çàëåæíîþ â³ä ïîë³òè÷íî¿ êîí"þíêòóðè. Êîëèñü ìîñêàë³ ïåðåìîãëè, à òè â³çüìè çá³ðêó Íîìèñà ³ ïîäèâèñÿ, ÿê ïðî íèõ íàð³ä âèñëîâëþºòüñÿ...

Ïî÷àñòè ñëóøíî. Àëå ÿ æ êàæó, ÿ ìàâ íà óâàç³ íå ßðåìó, àëå íàáàãàòî ïîì³ðêîâàí³øèõ é äð³áí³øèõ ä³ÿ÷³â. Òà ùî òàì ãîâîðèòè: ïðî òîãî æ Êèñ³ëÿ íåìຠòàêèõ ëåãåíä, ÷è íå òàê? :) Êèñ³ëü - öå ÿê ìàêñèìóì, âñå æ òàêè êè¿âñüêèé âîºâîäà ³ ñåíàòîð.

--- ×èòàâ ÿêîñü ö³êàâèé ìàòåð³àë, àëå íå ìîæó â³äøóêàòè. Òàì ïðî óêðà¿íñüêîãî ãðàôà Äðàêóëó. Áóâ ñîá³ îäèí ìàãíàò â Óêðà¿í³ çà ïîëÿê³â, ÿêèé í³áèòî çíàâñÿ ç íå÷èñòîþ ñèëîþ. À ïîò³ì ï³ñëÿ ñìåðò³ éîãî áà÷èëè ó çàìêó ó âèãëÿä³ óïèðÿ ÿêîãîñü ³ ò.ä. Ö³êàâà ð³÷. Øêîäà, çàãóáèâ. ϳä³éøëî á äî ðîçä³ëó Ö³êàâèíêè

À õòî àâòîð, íå ïðèãàäóºø?

--- Íó ÿ æ êàæó - ó ïîøóêàõ ³íòåðïðåòàö³¿. Òè æ çíàºø, ³ñòîð³ÿ - öå ïðîñòî ñèðîâèíà, êóïà ð³çíèõ ïàïåð³â, ïîñòàòåé ³ ôàêò³â, ç ÿêèõ êîæíå îáèðຠñîá³ òå, ùî éîìó ïîäîáàºòüñÿ ³ ìàéñòðóº ñîá³ âåðñ³¿ ïîä³é. Òàì âñüîãî ìîæíà çíàéòè - ³ ïðî ðåë³ã³éí³ñòü, ³ ïðî íåðåë³ã³éí³ñòü... Âëàñíå, êîæíà ³ñòîðè÷íà ïðàöÿ - öå íå á³ëüøå í³æ àâòîðñüêà ³íòåðïðåòàö³ÿ ³ñòîð³¿, àëå íå ³ñòîð³ÿ ÿê òàêà, áî ³ñòîð³ÿ - öå íåâëîâèìå ìèíóëå, éîãî íå ìîæíà ïîìàöàòè ³ ïåðåâ³ðèòè íà ïðåäìåò àâòåíòè÷íîñò³. Ò³ëüêè íå çâèíóâà÷óé ìåíå ó ôîìºíê³âùèí³, áóäü ëàñêà!..:)

Òà í³, òè ùî! ß æ òîá³ íå Êîíðàä :). Öå â³í òàêèé ÷óòëèâèé äî ³ñò. ì³ò³â. Ìåí³ íàâ³òü ñïîäîáàëîñü ïðàãíåííÿ íîâî¿ ³íòåðïðåòàö³¿ ÿê òàêå - íå ñïîäîáàëàñü ò³ëüêè ñàìà ïðàâîñëàâíî-ôóíäàìåíòàë³ñòñüêà ³íòåðïðåòàö³ÿ, òà é çàáàãàòî âîíà ìຠñëàáêèõ ì³ñöü... Çðåøòîþ, ïðàâîñëàâ"ÿ âæå íå ìîæå ñëóãóâàòè ´ðóíòîì äëÿ ñó÷àñíîãî óêðà¿íñòâà - ç â³äîìèõ ïðè÷èí: áë. ïîëîâèíè "ñàìîóñâ³äîìëåíèõ" óêðà¿íö³â º ãðåêî-êàòîëèêàìè.

--- êîçàêè ³ ïîëÿêè - öå íàâ³òü íå ïîð³âíþºòüñÿ, öå ð³çí³ âàãîâ³ êàòåãî𳿠ó áóêâàëüíîìó ðîçóì³íí³ (îäÿã ³ îçáðîºííÿ). Âàæêî çáàãíóòè, ÿê âîíè ìîãëè ïåðåìàãàòè çàêóòó ó çàë³çî ïîëüñüêó ê³ííîòó?..

òè íåäîö³íþºø êîçàê³â. Êîçàöüêó ï³õîòó ïîëÿêè äóæå ö³íóâàëè, íàð³âí³ ç ÿíè÷àðàìè. Ïðî òàá³ð ç âîç³â íåìà é ìîâè,à áî ç ãàðìàòàìè íà âàëàõ - òóò êîçàêè áóëè ìàéæå íåïåðåìîæí³. Öå, ì³æ ³íøèì, çà îö³íêîþ ïîëÿê³â.  ïîëÿê³â áóëà êåïñüêà ï³õîòà, àëå çíàìåíèòà ê³ííîòà - íàéêðàùà â ªâðîï³. Äî ðå÷³, êîçàöüêà ê³ííîòà ìîãëà á óñï³øíî ãàðöþâàòè äåñü íà ïîëÿõ â Áðàáàíò³, àëå íå ç ïîëüñêèìè ïàíöèðíèêàìè.

² ùå: íå òðåáà äóìàòè, ùî êîçàêè õîäèëè çîâñ³ì ãîë³, ÿê íà äåÿêèõ êàðòèíêàõ, áåç ëàò. Ëàòè âæèâàëèñÿ äîñèòü àêòèâíî. Çðåøòîþ, ìîæåø Íîðìàíà ñïèòàòè - â öüîìó ïèòàíí³ â³í ñïðàâæí³é ôàõ³âåöü.

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