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>>>Please forgive me for "dragging the argument" from >one >>>board to another but I really think I have a good >>>reason this time. Hard to confront someone when you >>>know he's got his finger on the delete button. >>> >>>"In all fairness, we started the AmBull off in >>>tracking at the age of twelve weeks--doing baby step >>>tracks with food in each track. This is pretty >typical >>>of how we start off all dogs for schutzhund and/or >AKC >>>tracking. Ring prospects are done a bit differently >>>since refusal of food is an integral part of their >>>overall trial/testing. >>> >>>The American Bulldog did okay on his tracking by the >>>time he was old enough to trial--scored on average in >>>the low 80s (have to have a minimum of 70 to pass and >>>move on to the obedience portion of the trial). In >>>this, he was pretty consistent--especially >considering >>>he had a novice handler/owner working him. I once >>>worked him for several weeks prior to his trialing >for >>>his Sch I title and managed to get him a score in the >>>upper 80s. >>> >>>Obedience was another story--we were lucky to even >get >>>the minimal score of 70. And this was with almost two >>>full years of hard training. The send-away (voraus) >>>exercise was virtually non-existent as there was no >>>control over the dog once he was a certain distance >>>away from the handler. I finally resigned myself to >>>taking a severe penalty by "platzing" him when he had >>>moved no further than maybe ten feet away. >>> >>>His drive and courage and willingness to protect and >>>attack during the protection portions was never in >>>question, however he was very slow to out--especially >>>so on the courage test when he was forty meters away >>>from the handler. He was dismissed from the field on >>>several occasions when he flat refused to out and his >>>owner had to choke him off the sleeve, which the >>>helper had slipped. >>> >>>But through perseverance and determination, we did >>>finally manage to put a Sch I on him after which the >>>club (and the awarding judge) strongly recommended >>>retiring the dog as there was simply no way he was >>>ever going to get a Sch II. >>> >>>The AmStaff that we put a Sch II on was a horrid >>>tracker--had no interest at all, and you do not >>>force-track a dog like an AmStaff. For the record, I >>>am not a proponent of force-tracking any dog, but I >>>have made rare exceptions over the years when the dog >>>was capable of scoring in the mid to high 90s >>>elsewhere in the trial. >>> >>>But this AmStaff simply did not "get it" when it came >>>to even the cursory basics of tracking. Other >AmStaffs >>>that came through the club displayed the same >>>tendencies. Generally, there was just no interest (or >>>drive) displayed by them on the tracking field. If I >>>remember correctly, this particular dog never scored >>>above a 75 on both occasions in which we put the >>>titles on her. >>> >>>Obedience was hot and cold--very inconsistent dog. >Her >>>owner was an experienced trainer and handler, and >>>pretty knowledgeable about the breed. Her other breed >>>was Boxers--another dog this day and age that is >>>difficult to put a schutzhund title on (even though >>>for the longest time in Germany, they were second in >>>popularity only to the GSD for schutzhund work). >>> >>>This AmStaff's biggest problem in the obedience was >>>heeling on-leash--heeling off-leash was not a >problem, >>>but anytime she had a leash on her, it was a constant >>>tug. That is where she also lost the most points. The >>>retrieving exercises were iffy as well--although her >>>ability to clear the brush hurdle and negotiate the >>>seven-foot wall was pure poetry in motion. >>> >>>But this dog's biggest problem in obedience was >>>maintaining the long down while the other dog was >>>executing its obedience routine. Depending on her >>>"mood," she was bad for breaking the long-down and >>>going after the other dog--especially during the >other >>>dog's long recall or send-away. >>> >>>We finally had to resort to the Tritronics e-collar >>>with a very high corrective setting and continuous >>>correction--often up to the full ten seconds. This >dog >>>had to be brought to her knees, shrieking before we >>>were finally able to have confidence that she could >>>maintain the long-down without going after the other >>>dog. >>> >>>And again, this dog was owned by a woman experienced >>>in both training and the breed. >>> >>>Her protection work was sharp, swift and >>>precise--right up until it was time to out the >sleeve. >>>Most dogs learn to out the sleeve fairly quickly once >>>that portion of the training is undertaken, but both >>>of the bulldogs hated releasing the sleeve. We were >>>prepared for this, with them being bulldogs, but it >>>took a lot longer to get them ready for trial than it >>>did with the other (breeds of) dogs. >>> >>>Overall, while there are a handful of the bulldog >>>types that have managed to earn schutzhund titles >>>(none to my knowledge have ever earned a FR III or >>>made it through the Dutch Ring or French Campagne), >>>they are not a breed suited to that type of training >>>or work. >>> >>>I share the opinion of many other working dog >trainers >>>who say that the "talents and abilities" of today's >>>bulldog breeds are very limited when compared to the >>>same "talents and abilities" of other breeds from the >>>Working and Herding groups--and with a few >exceptions, >>>the Sporting Group (Labs, Goldens Weimeraners). >>> >>>But then again, today's Dachschund is pretty limited >>>as well, as are a lot of breeds. >>> >>>Which is why I have never heard of working dogs or >>>herding dogs being referred to as "game," but rather >>>as having strong drive. >>> >>>Funny thing in the Doberman world (AKC side of it, >>>that is) is there is a test done at Doberman >>>specialties called the Working Aptitude Evaluation >>>(WAE). The creator of that test is Vic Montelon who >is >>>well regarded in the DPCA. Vic breeds Dobermans that >>>Europeans come over HERE to purchase and then take >>>back to Germany and France for schutzhund and ring >>>work. In other words, he breeds Dobermans with >correct >>>temperament. >>> >>>In the final portion of the WAE, the Doberman and its >>>handler are confronted by the "weird stranger" who >>>acts menacingly towards both the dog and the handler. >>>The dog is expected to show every indication that he >>>is ready to mix it up with the weird stranger in >>>defense of both himself and his handler. If you fail >>>that portion of the test, you fail the entire WAE. So >>>the dog isn't expected to show instant aggression--he >>>is required to. >>> >>>Yet, dog aggression will get you and your dog >>>dismissed from the grounds. Dog aggression that a >>>schutzhund or campagne judge deems threatening will >>>not only get you dismissed from the trial, but it can >>>also disqualify your dog from further competitions. >In >>>instances where such a dog actually does attack >>>another competing dog, it is not unusual for that dog >>>to be permanently barred from further competition and >>>its registration papers revoked. >>> >>>I admire a dog with strong drives--but only if that >>>dog also has the capacity to be under constant, >>>reliable voice-only control. If it doesn't, then it >is >>>of absolutely zero value to the working dog's world. >>> >>>--JD" >>> >>>http://www.sunshineband.org/cgi-bin/boards/dogpark.pl >? >>r >>>ead=28655 >> >>that was close!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!~!
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