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Subject: Please help me with this. Being Obese and being a drunk why are they not the same?


Author:
Rev. Drawin
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Date Posted: 02:47:32 04/09/06 Sun

I really have a question why is it ok for a person who is 350lbs on a 5ft. 8in frame to sing in the church choir but if a person drinks beer every day he is a sinner? Why can a person sing in church and sweat like a stuck pig because he is so over weight and everyone thinks it is ok! but if a person gets drunk on sat. it's a sin Why do we praise those who are bound by food and condemn those who are bound by drink. I can tell you because I am a certified personal trainer that If you were to cut the over weight persons food intake they will have the same reaction as a person who has their beer or drugs taken away. If we were to take a fat persons food away and make them eat only healthy food they will react the same way as a person addicted to drugs , they will become angry they will become violent they will sweat and have withdrawls just like a drug addict! But how can those who are overwieght go to heaven and those who are over drinkers go to hell Why do we except the fat people who are bound by food and never tell them to put down their GOD ( FOOD ) And we have no problem telling men and girls to stop drinking! Will those who are bound by food be able to sy to JESUS I loved you above all if they are 100 pounds over weight you know that in order to sweat while you stand still and sing in church you are bound by food I guess my question is why do we praise the fat sweaty people who sing and preach in our churches and condemn those who drink and do drugs arent they the same thing I mean the bible says anyone who is a drunkard is in the same boat as a person who lacks self control I mean what is the difference between a person who sweats in the pulpit from eating to many cheese burgers and a person who drank to many beers arent they the same both are legal The bible is clear that we should not be bound by anything and if you weight 300lbs and your under 6ft. you are bound by food.So whats the difference I mean beer is wheat and so is big macks . But why do we except the fat people and not the people who drink?

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[> Subject: Re: Please help me with this. Being Obese and being a drunk why are they not the same?


Author:
Steve
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Date Posted: 12:01:21 04/12/06 Wed

Bro Darwin --

Is gluttony as much a sin as drunkenness? Well, yes, as is causeless anger, hatred, etc., which is what the Catholic Church has always taught, though several Protestant denominations and those of counterfeit authority have usually tried to skirt the issue of deadly sins versus venial sins, those sins "not unto death" (I John 5:16-17).

This is one of those places where I just have to disagree with your approach, though. Your judgmentalism against fat people is just plain horrible and wrong on so many levels.

For starters, "if a person drinks beer every day he is a sinner" is a false statement and a false starting point for a comparison. A person is a sinner because we are all born that way. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are all sinners. It's the sin nature in us having its way, not the particular expression of it. Considering your dedication to God and His Word, I find it troubling that you would get that backwards. We will talk about that another time, after I've had time to pray about it.

The rest you are basing on your being a certified personal trainer -- that is, your own experience & indoctrination.

I'm speaking from MY own experience on this next point: The ruler of this world is poisoning us.

When I was much younger, before I came to Christ, I used to do extreme fasting as part of my [non-Christian] religious training. It trained my body to go into "starvation mode" if I don't have food; as long as I smoked tobacco and kept active, this did not pose a problem.

But after many years of being saved, Jesus delivered me of the tobacco 12 years ago. My metabolism immediately slowed down, going into the "starvation mode"; I gained a great deal of weight. Over the space of three years I went from 190 lbs to 310 lbs. Even keeping active, and maintaining a diet of about 1200-1400 cals. per day had NO EFFECT on this.

My physician told me I needed to build muscle mass because I had become "glucose intolerant" -- a precursor to diabetes type II -- due to the imbalance between muscle and fat tissue. I started an exercise program., but it had little net effect besides loosening my arthritic joints some.

But I have finally started to lose weight, at least 25 lbs., since this past December. NOT through exercise, and NOT through further restricting caloric intake. It was a result of keying in on a major cause of modern day obesity and cutting it out.

What has happened in the last 70 years is an increasing use of chemicals in our diets, substituting increasingly detrimental additives and substitutes for natural foods. One of these, that has been substituted for natural sugars, is a substance called "High-Fructose corn syrup". This is a particularly pernicious substance that cannot be properly metabolized by 80%-90% of humans, being best left to vegetarian animals. Its effect is to draw insulin away from muscle cells to fat cells, even more so than in a natural state, so that muscle cells cannot utilize the glucose in the bloodstream for energy. The glucose then bonds to the fat cells, and is converted to fat instead. This triggers the body to overproduce insulin,to make up for the shortfall to the muscle cells, until the pancreas is exhausted, and stops functioning. Voila. An obese person with Type II diabetes.

What is particularly telling about this, is that high-fructose corn syrup started being substituted for other sugars on a large scale in the mid-to-late 80's. Since that time, it has been introduced into more than 90% of the foodstuffs on the market. (Even so-called "healthy" granola bars & rice cakes!!!!) During that same time, the average age for the onset of Type II Diabetes has dropped from 60 to 48. This is an epidemic, which few have understood.

In my own case, we started last December to check the ingredients lists on all packaged food we buy, and if it has high-fructose corn syrup, we just don't buy it. It has helped me, my wife, and one overweight son to lose some weight, and we started just by changing the brands of bread we eat. Out of the hundreds of brands on the market, we found only one potato bread and one italian-style white bread that fit the bill, and we have these occasionally. But the staple we use now is made by a California company, I think the company is "Bread of Life", which makes a line of breads using no flour, but just sprouted grains. Of the so-called "healthy" breads that are marketed like this line, this is the only line that I've found which DOES NOT use the high-fructose corn syrup; they rely on natural flavors for the different types: regular, low-sodium, multi-grain, and cinnamon raisin.

And instead of using the modern poisons of man, they rely on the Word of God for the ingredients: the brand name of this bread is **EZEKIEL 4:9**, because that is where they got the recipe, Ezekiel 4:9 in the Bible. The bread is shipped frozen, so when we get it (here in Florida), it tends to be a little on the dry (and brittle) side, but it has a delicious nutty taste when toasted, and is a COMPLETE PROTEIN -- add a few veggies & you've got a complete meal.

It is also denser than regular bread, so a 1-1/2 lb. loaf is only the size of 14 oz. loaf of other popular brands; the slices are thinner so I can make just as many sandwiches as the large loaves of the other brands.


(As a side note regarding the sweating like a stuck pig phenomenon, yes I used to have that problem too, but found the solution: stop using deoderants/antiperspirants and other related poisons. For a while I looked ridiculous, as I substituted a head-to-toe dusting of ordinary corn starch for the antiperspirants, and the corn starch would leak out of my clothes until I learned how much to use. But after a while, my perspiration levels dropped, and the odors ceased, so I didn't need to use as much. Now I only use it once in a while, like when I have to dress up fancy.)


If you've gotten this far, Darwin, thank you for reading it, I hope you understand why I have to disagree with you. Lord, love us both.


yiC
steve

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[> [> Subject: Re: Please help me with this. Being Obese and being a drunk why are they not the same?


Author:
Rev. Drawin
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Date Posted: 01:04:02 04/13/06 Thu

There must have been some misunderstanding where you got I hate fat people I don't hate anyone It was a broad observation on the many people I see on TBN or know personally I know all about diabetes and anarexia and the many other eating disorders . It was just something that is running wild in our churches. I have heard even friends of mine who are overweight and and they have said it is excepted more than other sins . It just seems to me that the sin of gluttony is so excepted and allowed and even made to be a joke at after church lunch. This is a certain thing that goes on and thats why I brought it up it wasn't a witch hunt on everweight people I worked with overweight people for 15yrs. The bottom line is this I listened to 15yrs. of excuses of why people get obese, and the bottom line is over feeding is the cause. It doesn't matter how out of balance you thyroid gland is (it can't) produce fat only calories can produce fat. And that wasn't my point it was simply this. Why does the 9th fruit of the spirit only apply to drugs or beer or wine ect. I never judged anyone in my years as a personal fitness instructor I know the battle is very very very hard I spent 15yrs. of my life in study to combat that problem in other peoples life and my own. It wasn't a question or personal attack on anyone. I just can't understand why one lack of self control is so tolerated and the other is looked upon as( a sin that leads to death.) See, now most of my time is spent on preaching the message of deliverance from drugs and alcohol to people and what I can't understand is how the majority of the church looks down on those people with such contempt while those people who sit in judgment on those caught in addiction to ( other than food) look me in the eye and say those people (ie) addicts are some how still lost in their sin, while these people who look down on them clearly have a problem with over eating and continue to make excuses for their own personal sin of the flesh. I really didn't mean to offend you at all, in my defense I have been taught by some of the greatest minds in fitness and nutrition and have been certified by 3 nationally recognized schools of fitness, So I have heard all the (so called) reasons why people become overweight but that really wasn't even my point I just wanted to know simply why one thing is so looked down on and the other is so excepted and praised by people that in a nut shell was it. I hope I didn't hurt you in any way Steve and just to let you know I am not what you would call skinny I am 6'5 265lbs and its no longer hard firm muscle if you know what I mean ha ha. If I touched a nerve I am sorry that wasn't my intent at all. It reall just boggles my mind thats all. Talk to you later Darwin

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[> Subject: Yes , Gluttony and Drunkenness Are equally bad. But Obesity is not just gluttony.


Author:
steve
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Date Posted: 11:01:49 04/16/06 Sun

D-

There was a low budget scifi movie in the 80's called "The Stuff" that addressed the eating addiction question. There was a "mineral" deposit the consistency of yogurt, which had an attractive taste. A company discovered it & started marketing it as a food; it turned out that it was really an shapeless lifeform; the "attractive flavor" would turn into an addiction, and was the lifeform's method of getting a host creature to eat enough that it could then colonize inside you and eat you.

Heavy-handed quote from the movie: "Are you eating it, or is it eating you?"

Which is my point. Its really hard to eat healthy now; the soil of the world is depleted of the minerals the Lord placed there, the food is not nutritious, and those marketing the foods are filling them with addictive, destructive chemicals -- poisons. You ever see those ads that say "that's how many bowls of ********* you would need to eat to get all the nutrition you find in *********". But it's all fake. Poison. Chemicals.

So that's what people have to do. Eat that many bowls to get the nutrition. But those bowls have their own poisins.

So I'm sorry if I was as heavy-handed in what I said before as that movie was. I think I'm agreeing with you about how the church is and should not be winking at gluttony, but disagreeing about the cause of the gluttony.

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