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Date Posted: 15:12:15 07/01/23 Sat
Author: No name
Author Host/IP: 76.232.52.29
Subject: Re: 2023 realignment & 'countable opponents'
In reply to: charles arey 's message, "2023 realignment & 'countable opponents'" on 14:58:19 07/01/23 Sat

>Unless I missed or overlooked something, the
>conference pages should now all be updated to reflect
>the proper alignment for 2023. There are some new
>conferences to replace some old ones, so refresh the
>index frame to make sure they're showing up (you
>should see 'Big South-OVC Football Assocation' now
>instead of Big South and Ohio Valley Conference
>separately, for example). Please let me know if i
>missed something.
>
>A new thing to facilitate navigation: if you click on
>the helmet image at the top of the conference page it
>will jump down to the section for that team on the
>page. This has only been done thus far for three
>conference pages (the FBS conferences that had major
>realignment upheaval this year) but I will likely
>eventually do it for at least most of the Division I
>conferences. I consider this to be a low priority so
>it likely will not be completed anytime soon.
>
>'Countable opponents'
>
>Both the NCAA and NAIA now maintain a list of
>'non-countable opponents' to help their membership
>know who they cannot schedule and have those games
>count for win-loss records, statistics, etc. The
>criteria for the two organizations seem to be nearly
>identical and I've noticed only one apparent
>contradiction between the two.
>
>The NCAA list is here, and was updated most recently
>June 28, 2023:
>
>http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/ForSIDs/CountOppDefinitio
>n.pdf
>
>The NAIA list is here, and was updated at least as
>recently as May 16, 2023:
>
>https://www.naia.org/legislative/countable-opponents
>
>Both NCAA and NAIA state that the list of teams above
>are not complete - other 'non-countable' opponents
>exist.
>
>It is my current policy to include at the website NCAA
>and NAIA teams, plus currently 'countable opponents'
>for either, so again please let me know if I missed
>anything. Both the NCAA and NAIA include as countable
>opponents members of the National Christian College
>Athletic Association (NCCAA), but upon inspecting a
>list of the 15 NCCAA institutions which had football
>teams in 2022-23 at:
>
>https://thenccaa.org/stats.aspx?path=football&year=2022
>
>I noticed only two that are not also members of either
>the NCAA or NAIA. Those two are Virginia University
>Lynchburg and University of Fort Lauderdale, both of
>which are included at the 'helmet project' website on
>the page labelled 'other college teams' down towards
>the bottom of the site index.
>
>Lincoln University in Oakland, CA apparently qualifies
>as "countable" via some other means, as it is not an
>NCCAA team. Accreditation via various bodies is
>another way to achieve "countability".
>
>The one discrepancy I found between NAIA and NCAA is
>the Apprentice School, the shipbuilding school in
>Virginia which has played small-college opponents in
>the mid-Atlantic region for more than a hundred years.
>Presently the school appears on the "non-countable"
>NAIA list, but is not listed as "non-countable" by the
>NCAA. At least five NCAA teams show Apprentice School
>on their 2023 football schedule but none label the
>game as an "exhibition", so I would assume Apprentice
>School remains countable for NCAA.
>
>Could there be some "countable" opponents (via the
>accreditiation qualification) that nonetheless choose
>not to schedule NCAA or NAIA opponents? If so, I
>suppose they should be included at the website...but
>I'm unaware of any such team.
>
>Thanks as always for your reports and contributions!

The SIAC got rid of divisions, starting in 2023.

https://www.voy.com/53670/22482.html

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Replies:

[> [> Re: 2023 realignment & 'countable opponents' -- IDM3, 00:19:01 07/02/23 Sun (72.168.176.110)

>>Unless I missed or overlooked something, the
>>conference pages should now all be updated to reflect
>>the proper alignment for 2023. There are some new
>>conferences to replace some old ones, so refresh the
>>index frame to make sure they're showing up (you
>>should see 'Big South-OVC Football Assocation' now
>>instead of Big South and Ohio Valley Conference
>>separately, for example). Please let me know if i
>>missed something.
>>
>>A new thing to facilitate navigation: if you click on
>>the helmet image at the top of the conference page it
>>will jump down to the section for that team on the
>>page. This has only been done thus far for three
>>conference pages (the FBS conferences that had major
>>realignment upheaval this year) but I will likely
>>eventually do it for at least most of the Division I
>>conferences. I consider this to be a low priority so
>>it likely will not be completed anytime soon.
>>
>>'Countable opponents'
>>
>>Both the NCAA and NAIA now maintain a list of
>>'non-countable opponents' to help their membership
>>know who they cannot schedule and have those games
>>count for win-loss records, statistics, etc. The
>>criteria for the two organizations seem to be nearly
>>identical and I've noticed only one apparent
>>contradiction between the two.
>>
>>The NCAA list is here, and was updated most recently
>>June 28, 2023:
>>
>>http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/ForSIDs/CountOppDefiniti
>o
>>n.pdf
>>
>>The NAIA list is here, and was updated at least as
>>recently as May 16, 2023:
>>
>>https://www.naia.org/legislative/countable-opponents
>>
>>Both NCAA and NAIA state that the list of teams above
>>are not complete - other 'non-countable' opponents
>>exist.
>>
>>It is my current policy to include at the website NCAA
>>and NAIA teams, plus currently 'countable opponents'
>>for either, so again please let me know if I missed
>>anything. Both the NCAA and NAIA include as countable
>>opponents members of the National Christian College
>>Athletic Association (NCCAA), but upon inspecting a
>>list of the 15 NCCAA institutions which had football
>>teams in 2022-23 at:
>>
>>https://thenccaa.org/stats.aspx?path=football&year=202
>2
>>
>>I noticed only two that are not also members of either
>>the NCAA or NAIA. Those two are Virginia University
>>Lynchburg and University of Fort Lauderdale, both of
>>which are included at the 'helmet project' website on
>>the page labelled 'other college teams' down towards
>>the bottom of the site index.
>>
>>Lincoln University in Oakland, CA apparently qualifies
>>as "countable" via some other means, as it is not an
>>NCCAA team. Accreditation via various bodies is
>>another way to achieve "countability".
>>
>>The one discrepancy I found between NAIA and NCAA is
>>the Apprentice School, the shipbuilding school in
>>Virginia which has played small-college opponents in
>>the mid-Atlantic region for more than a hundred years.
>>Presently the school appears on the "non-countable"
>>NAIA list, but is not listed as "non-countable" by the
>>NCAA. At least five NCAA teams show Apprentice School
>>on their 2023 football schedule but none label the
>>game as an "exhibition", so I would assume Apprentice
>>School remains countable for NCAA.
>>
>>Could there be some "countable" opponents (via the
>>accreditiation qualification) that nonetheless choose
>>not to schedule NCAA or NAIA opponents? If so, I
>>suppose they should be included at the website...but
>>I'm unaware of any such team.
>>
>>Thanks as always for your reports and contributions!
>
>The SIAC got rid of divisions, starting in 2023.
>
>https://www.voy.com/53670/22482.html



Has NCCAA posted their list yet? The have two-one for Division I and for Division II.

Virginia-Lynchburg and Fort Lauderdale are NCCAA members Lynchburg also plays some MEAC and SWAC schools because of their HBCU status. I recall from last year MEAC considered extending membership to Lynchburg, but to leap from NCCAA to NCAA is next to impossible forseeing some kind of miracle that catapulted former D3 St. Thomas-Minnesota to D1-FCS after MIAC kicked them out for being too good in every sport.

Lincoln-California, I think, is a provisional NAIA member.

Apprentice is the more interesting subject. The ship-building school is a tree-year, non-degree issuing school that isn't counted by NAIA, doesn't appear on the NCAA list, is a member of USCAA, and non-countable on NCCAA's Di list but is approved for NCCAA's D2. Apprentice is in that netherworld between the 4-year schools and the Jucos. I'm guessing they must have some sort of exemption from NCAA on condition that they add some degree-granting courses and receive proper accreditation. That would support the rumors I'm hearing that Apprentice is seeking accreditation from Mid-States. I'll be watching this as well.

I'm also watching John Melvin University in Crowley, LA. They're now entering a trial period with TRACS for accreditation, as they seek NAIA membership next year.


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