Re: Discussion Thread - The Quickening - spoilers below -- Angel The Series Board

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 11:55:29 11/18/01 Sun
Author: Karnstein
Subject: Re: Discussion Thread - The Quickening - spoilers below
In reply to: Bullocks 's message, "Re: Discussion Thread - The Quickening" on 17:52:48 11/17/01 Sat

Bullocks - I think we see this slightly different, as I sense that I am angrier about B/S than you are, and you are happier about A/D than I am. My anger about B/S is an 11 on the 1-10 scale of powerful emotions and my happiness about A/Darla is about an 8. So, one "cause" overrides the other. I can't help but let my anger about B/S, and the Bradification of Spike spill over onto another show that features another male vampire (Spike's relative) who also happened to have had another mythical ship (B/A and S/D with respect to Spike). I won't happily stand for the dissing and devaluing of B/A as I had to with respect to S/D. Since B/A was an even more "important" ship in the Whedonverse, I was hoping that it would stand as a bulwark - a guarantor against future "bad" relationships for Buffy and Angel, i.e. B/S, A/C, A/Fred, etc. and a general bulwark against the anti-canonical doings of Marti Noxious.

Consequently, I jealously guard Angel's integrity as a lover and a true gallant (what I once felt Spike was and had actually been shown as such all throught S2). I am investing most of my hopes in Angel, and don't want him to fail in this regard. (I am pretty much resigned to him never completely regaining his old persona unless a spectacular twist is laid on us in the end).

So, I was massively disappointed and pissed off by Angel's lack of reaction to Buffy's death and subsequent rebirth. It was almost a matter of indifference to him! Now, compare this to Brad's reaction to her death and rebirth! Just which character, I ask you all, had the longtime, loving, actual romantic relationship with Buffy?!? And why wasn't HE depicted as being crushed at her death and freaking overjoyed at her return?!? Even if a crossover wasn't possible, which it wasn't, Angel still could have been shown as crushed, tearful, brooding and lacking interest in life for an episode or two. Instead, we were treated to a thoughtful but bouncy Angel who listened indulgently to Cordy and Wesley's disgraceful skit on B/A.

Different networks aside, I see both BtVS and AtS as parts of a whole, namely the Whedonverse. I feel that the writers on AtS, being the newbie, need to still acknowledge Angel's past and those who played a huge role in it. Both networks can't at all be sure that AtS will stay on WB. AtS may be beating BtVS in the ratings (true?!), but it is still on shaky ground. Apparently, it's being sparingly promoted, even during sweeps and another show is being groomed for its timeslot. I still get the impression that it's a hostage to lingering WB/UPN hostility.

Since the writers and producers are aware that AtS may well end up on UPN and airing immediately after BtVS (as Joss negotiated), then I think that they should write with that as a possibility in mind. Indeed, aren't the WB trying to negotiate a SMG appearance at the end of AtS S3? Only B/Sers and A/Cers don't want to see crossovers, as their ships would be threatened. But I think that the general fan enjoys viewing the Whedonverse characters as players on one big, fantastical stage. Still, worst come to worst, the writers and producers owed their own mythology and their longtime fans more respect by depicting Angel with deep, powerful emotions on her death and rebirth and B/A as the signature relationship of the Whedonverse - a huge piece of the puzzle that is NOT to be trifled with by indifference and absurd skits.

I agree with you that Mutant Enemy is trying to replicate B/A with B/Brad, as Brad has been made uncannily like the early Angel - quiet, timid, passive, etc. Still, the WB being the "creating" network of the whole Whedonverse should not have been so quick to surrender their claim on this ship (B/A). They could have played it up for all it was worth (and thumbed their noses at UPN) and,in doing so, nodded to the numerous B/Aers and fans of classic BtVS. This "on with the new and out with the old" approach, especially so scandalously and abruptly thrust upon us, offended me. Angel could have been shown mourning over numerous episodes and yet still combat evil and interact with his colleagues. I don't mean that Angel should have been shown tearful in his bedroom for six episodes in a row; however, we could have been shown him tearful and lethargic for a couple of episodes and slowly come back to life over a period of several episodes. We could have been shown him placing a few calls to Buffy directly or even to her friends, asking after how she was doing (once she returned). So, instead of such concern and caring being shown to his longtime lover, instead we are shown a philosophical Angel largely ignoring her existence and leaving her to her own dire fate, i.e. depression, abandonment by Giles and opportunistic Brad. Doesn't he remember how out of it - crazed - he was when he returned from Hell in S3? True, he wouldn't suspect that Buffy had been in Hell, but he could have imagined how strange and disorienting it would be for her. It is totally out of character for Angel to be shown not caring too much about Buffy, almost immediately making googoo eyes at Cordelia and preparing to engage in a sort of marriage of convenience with Darla (which will end up happening, minus the ceremony).

My bottom line: the WB could have and should have done more to be true to Angel's character, the B/A ship which helped make them rich and to their longtime fans (many of whom are sticking around still to watch AtS). They didn't try too damn hard, and that is a shame when you consider that we are dealing with a 'ship and a 'verse (in their prime) that are going to go down in television history as being among the best of all time.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

Re: Discussion Thread - The Quickening - spoilers below -- Bullocks, 17:19:24 11/18/01 Sun