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| Subject: Re: B.T.'s Mr. Magoo dog... | |
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Author: Mike Norrod Author Host/IP: 67.177.152.140 |
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Date Posted: 22:10:48 02/17/06 Fri In reply to: BILLYT 's message, "Re: B.T.'s Mr. Magoo dog..." on 13:49:30 02/17/06 Fri >I did not know you hsd blood form Otto otto.Solution >was a >good dog,in his own right.Otto Otto was a long dog in >body >and he was red brindle. A friend of mine owned Solution until the day he died. He died here by me. I bred a double crossed daughter of Ch. Gambler to him. A few friends of mine around here and IN. bred to him. The Otto blood I had was before I bred to Solution that I got a friend of mine who lived in FL. for a while. Him and I bred it to some of the blood from Ch. Iron Bobcat. In fact Strattons third book there is a guy who standing in front of a red farm tractor, he was my partner with some of the dogs and those dogs from a female from Otto. >long long ago she was being labeled a red nose >breeder.She said she had nothing to do with it that is >the way nature dished things out.Heck most of the old >sorona dogs had black noses. Well I guess that came from the fact Mary was only breeding red nose dogs when she got started. Remember that is where Maud came from and many of the Clouse dogs she was using were red nose. A lot of her Cajun Lulu, Sunset, etc. and these dogs came from a friend of mine named Earl Adams who use to put on shows back in the 70's. I met Earl through Pat Bodzianowski and Clarence Yates. Earl got dogs off Yates' Redman which was heavy in Hetrick's blood down from Lightner. >If you remember me saying that Jake told me that a lot >of his dogs were starting to run seventy pounds plus >and he crossed them with something and sold them to >wolf hunters.I thought that was far fetched but when I >read what you said about the redbone cross the >possibility became more believable. Oh I can tell who also knew about this, Gary Hughes and Palmer Combs (Ch. Lively, Johnnie Walker 4xw). Palmer got half of Creed's yard when he died and the other half went to Floyd. Gary and Palmer were the first ones who told me of this and I just couldn't believe it and called Jake and ask him directly and he told me from his own mouth he had done those breeding!! Gary you can contact through Laura Rager, aka LA Rager, aka Laura Dixon owner of aka Gaines Whitey aka Dixon's Whitey the mother of Fargo. Palmer was the President of the Mimi- Bull Terrier Assoc. for AKC. Both are still alive and around the dogs. My Nitro dog, Grand father of Ch. Hagler 4xw was the last of Palmer's Creed blood. But for those who have to crop Hemphill dogs ears because they look to Houndy, now you know why!!!!! >Iam sure you know as I do some of the players back >then that one had to be a mind reader to figure out >just what >one was really getting if one purchased something off >them. Ya I know, you should had seen the gang from Chicago. Man those dudes had no conscience........ >Now that I got you reading this maybe you could answer >a question. >As many know Mullins stated his version of the OFRN >Yet Brown did also and wrote the book the history of >the APBT. >Then we have Strattons version,now when three different >versions are being belted out something is wrong >somewhere in Demark per say. First off, forget Wayne D Brown. He was a AST breeder and didn't know dick about the breed at the time of the writing. Hell in one part he says Colby's dogs were from OFRN of Irish dogs. Colby only bred ONE red nose dog into the line and that was Galtie. There was so many mistakes in his book that it had no creditability at all! Stratton's and Mullin are very close to being the same. Personally I didn't find much difference if any. One thing I disagree with Dick is his reference as "Pure" OFRN. I have no idea what in the world he meant by that because all red nose dogs had black nose in them because they were crossed to other fighting dogs from Europe to create the APBT. Without the black nose cross you would still have the same breed from Ireland and not APBT! >It sure gets confuseing,as some of the old timers that >I knew in early seventies has information that went >against the grain.And most of these fellows were from >the old country and in their seventies and early >eighties then.The only thing they would say was red >with a red nose was the Irish staffords or whatever >they called them at the time. I never heard the term Irish Staffords because the word name alone "Stafford" was a word reference to a county in England called Staffordshire County. You must remember by the time the breed Staffordshire Bull Terrier was recognized, in 1935, the Old Family Reds from Ireland was LONG GONE! I believe what they were talking about was SBT that weren't recognized yet imported into Ireland before 1935 from England. >But the ones I seen also had the blacknose. >I guess what Iam trying to ask you in your opinion who >would you take as telling the truth if there is one. The name "Old Family" meant from each different family Klan in Ireland. Because each Klan kept their dogs to themselves they got so inbred and line-bred they almost became a breed within a breed or sub-strain of the breed. Because their color was red, they were called Old Family Reds. What made the Irish imports so unique was it's ability to be bred tight for gameness by compounding on alike genes creating the game trait more prevalent in the litter of pups. >These old timers talked about bloodline from the old >country >or I should say countries as they also included >SCOTTLAND AND ENGLAND AND OF COURSE IRELAND and spoke >of them as if they were top secret. Well I think many old timers like these were referring to dogs brought in thinking they were possibly of the same creation that was imported years before that help create the APBT. Remember the APBT was in country back in the 1700's and posters are still traded of matches back in the 1850's.. BTW I don't think there ever was any great secrets. Everyone has to remember back in the 1800's it was a luxury to have an education and majority of the poorer people which owned the APBT could not read or write. I never believed in the BS about family secret breeding. >They would tell me >that the pedigrees should have been retained in the >same fashion as in those countries mentioned. Why? These weren't the same breed. These were different breeds of dogs that were bred to each other and created a new different breed. >I cannot say this is fact but they spoke of Lightner >stock as being the oldest bloodline as according to >them it went back as far as the late 1700's and early >1800's and it was guarded then as others did the same. William Lightner was known to be the longest living man to ever owned the breed. Longer then Colby. Colby's family continued with the line but William Lightner owned it longer then John P. Colby and Lightner's family owned it before Colby. When you read the names of Colby, Lightner, Shipley, Corcoran, Feeley, etc. I don't think you can call their dogs a bloodline. I personally believe these people were creators of the breed and their dogs were the ones which standardized the breed as you see it today. JMO [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| Subject | Author | Date |
| Re: B.T.'s Mr. Magoo dog... | BILLYT (209.4.44.61) | 10:16:54 02/18/06 Sat |
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