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| Subject: Re: B.T.'s Mr. Magoo dog... | |
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Author: BILLYT Author Host/IP: 209.4.44.61 |
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Date Posted: 10:16:54 02/18/06 Sat In reply to: Mike Norrod 's message, "Re: B.T.'s Mr. Magoo dog..." on 22:10:48 02/17/06 Fri MIKE as always you bring forth quite a bit of information relateing to the breed. Although I'am sure that many that read the posts get ruffled up and tongue tied. The thing you said about the ears,the bells went off after reading that sentance as I remember many old pictures of Jake holding a pair of pups that could have been taken as red bone hounds. As a matter of fact their ears might have surppassed a hounds ears. On Solution,his dam is burried in this yard.His sire was one of the very best around these parts.If all he encountered through his ears as being counted in another fashion he would a double or trippel gr.ch and who knows how many rom's. Solution was bred to a dog that I recieved from a friend what now seems longer then I recall named Buckskinbabe and that litter produced ch's I believe three,with the rest being one or two. She was not as people made her out to be as being more corvino than anyohter blood she carried,one only had to look at the pedigree to see she had mroe eli floating around her with a share of Boomerang blood to boot. She was bred to old gismo once and produced one male and one female pup.The male was a sorry specimen yet the feamle was beyound imagination.Her owners made the misstake of inviteing many to see her schooled and after viewing it went back and told othres to save their money.No body wanted any part of her,she was a nasty little bitch all her life if one did not get to know her and she did not take to likeing or even tolerating a person it spelled bad news for them. She a liability for sure as was her brother although he was not worth two cents.Never did keep upp with alot of the pups as many wound up in other states. But as I mentioned about eli's pedigree being wrong then it could have very well been that bucskin babe was indeed more corvino then one thought. I'am sure you must be asked the same questions as I have.With the main one asking one to look at the pedigree of the stud and asking should I breed to it or not and what percentages should I hope to accomplish if I do. My answer is you'll never know unless one does it. I know when one looks at a pedigree that is from a top stud one automatically thinks that its a go and can't go wrong. ALot of people found out the hard way and spent alot of money doing so to find out it was a waste of money and time,although they did get a nice pedigree out of it.But that is the one down fall being that they knew is was a bad breeding and sold the pups to those that only seen what made the pedigree look great. ALthough I don't have any dogs anymore I find some of the things such as adds somewhat laughable. I read not to long ago about two fella's with adds out on breeding they made.What was funny was that they were bashing each others dogs. Yet they had the same exact dogs with the exception being some of the dogs placed differently.Yet the same blood and both ways produced and yet a war of words erupted. I know that you don't just breed without doing some home work before you attempt to do it. But today there are so many that think breeding is something of putting two and two together and exspecting it to work. Many breeders or wannabees don't relize that breeding is somewhat of an art form in itself.It takes time and a great deal of knownledge to get it as perfect as possible. And even then there are no guarantte's to boot. Where did brown come up with the info he attained as wether or not it was true or false that was quite a bit of info on who was bred to who to make this one or that one.Even if as I said it were not true it sure looked like it was for real. Those creed dogs that were disstributed out you mentioned FLoyd was that Boudreaux. As I said in a post he told me about red dogs in his line. I haven't heard from him since all the trouble he was haveing.I did recieve a CHRISTMAS CARD FROM HIM AND RETURNED ONE.But nothing after that,it was sure a shame that all those dogs were put down.I know it turned his life upside down.But what he went through is what most are going through as we speak,the witch hunt is continueing and eyes are all over the place watching.I know down here in Fla someone is collecting rewards and alot of inocent people are being harrassed and many are just giveing up. II noticed yesturday going through adds and message boards that alot of them have been taken down by the owners and alot been taken off by the web host. Down here there trying to make it hard for everyone that owns a dog or bitch out of the breed. I seenn your add for a show you have comeing up.Aren't you judgeing for the A.D.B.A. ANYMORE. I haven't jduged in quite sometime as I cannot afford to go to make the convention and the hurricanes skrewed things up with the la show in which I was going to the judges semminar. I have to according to them make a semanar before I can judge again. I was just wondering about you judgeing as I know that your name came up at one time for request for a judge. Sure wish things were better finaceially as judgeing is something I know for sure. Again I thankyou for the info you contribute as I learn things just as much as the newbie. >I did not know you hsd blood form Otto otto.Solution >>was a >>good dog,in his own right.Otto Otto was a long dog in >>body >>and he was red brindle. > >A friend of mine owned Solution until the day he died. >He died here by me. I bred a double crossed daughter >of Ch. Gambler to him. A few friends of mine around >here and IN. bred to him. >The Otto blood I had was before I bred to Solution >that I got a friend of mine who lived in FL. for a >while. Him and I bred it to some of the blood from Ch. >Iron Bobcat. In fact Strattons third book there is a >guy who standing in front of a red farm tractor, he >was my partner with some of the dogs and those dogs >from a female from Otto. > >>long long ago she was being labeled a red nose >>breeder.She said she had nothing to do with it that is >>the way nature dished things out.Heck most of the old >>sorona dogs had black noses. > >Well I guess that came from the fact Mary was only >breeding red nose dogs when she got started. Remember >that is where Maud came from and many of the Clouse >dogs she was using were red nose. A lot of her Cajun >Lulu, Sunset, etc. and these dogs came from a friend >of mine named Earl Adams who use to put on shows back >in the 70's. I met Earl through Pat Bodzianowski and >Clarence Yates. Earl got dogs off Yates' Redman which >was heavy in Hetrick's blood down from Lightner. > >>If you remember me saying that Jake told me that a lot >>of his dogs were starting to run seventy pounds plus >>and he crossed them with something and sold them to >>wolf hunters.I thought that was far fetched but when I >>read what you said about the redbone cross the >>possibility became more believable. > >Oh I can tell who also knew about this, Gary Hughes >and Palmer Combs (Ch. Lively, Johnnie Walker 4xw). >Palmer got half of Creed's yard when he died and the >other half went to Floyd. >Gary and Palmer were the first ones who told me of >this and I just couldn't believe it and called Jake >and ask him directly and he told me from his own mouth >he had done those breeding!! Gary you can contact >through Laura Rager, aka LA Rager, aka Laura Dixon >owner of aka Gaines Whitey aka Dixon's Whitey the >mother of Fargo. >Palmer was the President of the Mimi- Bull Terrier >Assoc. for AKC. Both are still alive and around the >dogs. >My Nitro dog, Grand father of Ch. Hagler 4xw was the >last of Palmer's Creed blood. > >But for those who have to crop Hemphill dogs ears >because they look to Houndy, now you know why!!!!! > >>Iam sure you know as I do some of the players back >>then that one had to be a mind reader to figure out >>just what >>one was really getting if one purchased something off >>them. > >Ya I know, you should had seen the gang from Chicago. >Man those dudes had no conscience........ > >>Now that I got you reading this maybe you could answer >>a question. >>As many know Mullins stated his version of the OFRN >>Yet Brown did also and wrote the book the history of >>the APBT. >>Then we have Strattons version,now when three >different >>versions are being belted out something is wrong >>somewhere in Demark per say. > >First off, forget Wayne D Brown. He was a AST breeder >and didn't know dick about the breed at the time of >the writing. Hell in one part he says Colby's dogs >were from OFRN of Irish dogs. Colby only bred ONE red >nose dog into the line and that was Galtie. >There was so many mistakes in his book that it had no >creditability at all! > >Stratton's and Mullin are very close to being the same. >Personally I didn't find much difference if any. >One thing I disagree with Dick is his reference as >"Pure" OFRN. I have no idea what in the world he meant >by that because all red nose dogs had black nose in >them because they were crossed to other fighting dogs >from Europe to create the APBT. Without the black nose >cross you would still have the same breed from Ireland >and not APBT! > >>It sure gets confuseing,as some of the old timers that >>I knew in early seventies has information that went >>against the grain.And most of these fellows were from >>the old country and in their seventies and early >>eighties then.The only thing they would say was red >>with a red nose was the Irish staffords or whatever >>they called them at the time. > >I never heard the term Irish Staffords because the >word name alone "Stafford" was a word reference to a >county in England called Staffordshire County. >You must remember by the time the breed Staffordshire >Bull Terrier was recognized, in 1935, the Old Family >Reds from Ireland was LONG GONE! >I believe what they were talking about was SBT that >weren't recognized yet imported into Ireland before >1935 from England. > >>But the ones I seen also had the blacknose. >>I guess what Iam trying to ask you in your opinion who >>would you take as telling the truth if there is one. > >The name "Old Family" meant from each different family >Klan in Ireland. Because each Klan kept their dogs to >themselves they got so inbred and line-bred they >almost became a breed within a breed or sub-strain of >the breed. >Because their color was red, they were called Old >Family Reds. >What made the Irish imports so unique was it's ability >to be bred tight for gameness by compounding on alike >genes creating the game trait more prevalent in the >litter of pups. > >>These old timers talked about bloodline from the old >>country >>or I should say countries as they also included >>SCOTTLAND AND ENGLAND AND OF COURSE IRELAND and spoke >>of them as if they were top secret. > >Well I think many old timers like these were referring >to dogs brought in thinking they were possibly of the >same creation that was imported years before that help >create the APBT. Remember the APBT was in country back >in the 1700's and posters are still traded of matches >back in the 1850's.. > >BTW I don't think there ever was any great secrets. >Everyone has to remember back in the 1800's it was a >luxury to have an education and majority of the poorer >people which owned the APBT could not read or write. >I never believed in the BS about family secret >breeding. > >>They would tell me >>that the pedigrees should have been retained in the >>same fashion as in those countries mentioned. > >Why? These weren't the same breed. These were >different breeds of dogs that were bred to each other >and created a new different breed. > >>I cannot say this is fact but they spoke of Lightner >>stock as being the oldest bloodline as according to >>them it went back as far as the late 1700's and early >>1800's and it was guarded then as others did the >same. > >William Lightner was known to be the longest living >man to ever owned the breed. Longer then Colby. >Colby's family continued with the line but William >Lightner owned it longer then John P. Colby and >Lightner's family owned it before Colby. > >When you read the names of Colby, Lightner, Shipley, >Corcoran, Feeley, etc. I don't think you can call >their dogs a bloodline. >I personally believe these people were creators of the >breed and their dogs were the ones which standardized >the breed as you see it today. JMO [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| Subject | Author | Date |
| Re: B.T.'s Mr. Magoo dog... | Rosie (72.40.125.155) | 13:53:31 02/18/06 Sat |
| Re: B.T.'s Mr. Magoo dog... | Mike Norrod (67.177.152.140) | 11:03:13 02/19/06 Sun |