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Date Posted: 19:14:18 04/19/05 Tue
Author: Joe
Subject: Re: moderation, censorship or ...
In reply to: Tony Lang 's message, "Re: moderation is not censorship" on 08:30:40 04/19/05 Tue

... or maybe we need to rethink this whole thing, that is, the aims of having a web site and discussion forum.

I propose that the problem is not that UBF members/defenders are not willing to have a "discussion." The problem is that they are all-too-willing to have a "discussion." And it usually erupts in a flame war. And we get to hear from them the same justifications, same scripture twisting, same relativism, same blame projection and "rebukes" that were used to silence dissent when we were in UBF. Those things wounded us and damaged us when we submitted to them in UBF. Why should we have to be exposed to them again, after we've left?

If someone has left UBF recently, would they want to go somewhere where UBF members are free to try to heap UBF-guilt-tripping on their heads again?

We need to hear from more former UBF members instead of the usual cast of characters like me. Repeated "discussions" about the same topics discourage them, I think. The presence of UBF defenders using the familiar dissent-crushing techniques discourages them, I think.

Ask any cult recovery expert. Would they recommend that a former cult member go back to the cult and engage in repeated open discussions year after year, week after week with the cult's defenders and spokespersons, to have the same wounds opened again and again? Heck no. Maybe someone with experience in the cult recovery field or psychology can weigh in here.

Obviously, we can't take back the "discussions" (fights) with UBF defenders that we've already had. Perhaps those "discussions" had value and some of them have turned out to be quite revealing. But I have to tell you, personally, those "discussions" have been terribly stressful. I don't believe those "discussions" have aided my recovery from UBF.

Maybe discussion was appropriate in 2000-2001 when we were still in UBF or fresh out of UBF and there seemed to be some movement toward a reform. But the reformers (the more reasonable portion of UBF, the "conscience" of UBF, UBF "lite") have left. What remains is an even more radicalized UBF.

Is anything *new* likely to be "discussed" with UBF defenders here?


>by some of us who wander from the original aims of
>this web. But lets face it times change, and the
>original aims might be now a teeny bit narrow.

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