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Date Posted: 13:35:41 10/08/04 Fri
Author: Brian Karcher
Subject: Re: UBF Doctrine
In reply to: Tom F 's message, "UBF Doctrine" on 09:31:45 10/08/04 Fri

Finally, some reasonable posts! I do not have time at the moment to respond, but I will find time later.

>It has been said plenty of times that UBF is socially
>and ethically corrupt. What about its doctrine, its
>belief systems? What incorrect beliefs does it hold on
>to (i.e., using scripture out of context, etc) that
>would make it crossover to being a cult? I have a few
>ideas, please add more:
>
>1. You can lose your salvation after you are saved. If
>you fall out of favor with God, meaning if you disobey
>your Shepherd, then you are not saved anymore. Ron
>Ward, Pastor of UBF Chicago, once told me that "you
>can never be sure of your salvation". He then told me
>that "Samuel Lee often questioned his status with
>God". Does anyone else in UBF believe this? I don't
>really think so, but it would be nice to hear it from
>someone in UBF.
>
>2. Marraige by faith. This is a twisting of the
>scriptures concerning Rebekah and Isaac. This also
>incorporates another UBF idiom, "grab the blessing".
>When the blessing is there, grab it! The way it was
>explained to me sounds like we are to jump at the
>chance for an opportunity when it presents itself,
>whether or not we believe it is the right thing to do.
>(As long as we obey our Shepherds.) Just grab it!
>Anybody want to explain either of these ideas to me?
>
>3. Spiritual order. We all know the routine: sheep are
>obedient to their Shepherds, who are under their
>fellowship leaders, who are under their chapter
>directors, who are under the UBF director, or
>something like that. Now, I am not saying that there
>is nothing wrong with churhces or ministries having
>leaders that make decisions. Every church needs
>leadership. However, the relationship given here is
>one way, and is not bi-directional. It does not serve,
>but it is served. Anyone want to comment on this from
>UBF?
>
>While these may seem sociological, they are truly
>doctrinal at their roots, stemming from an improper
>interpretation of scripture. Wrong beliefs and values
>put a ministry in the wrong direction. I think that
>these social and ethical problems are symptoms of an
>improper "belief window". (A belief window is an
>analogy. We perceive our world by the beliefs we look
>through. If we have improper beliefs about ourselves,
>God, and the world, we need to re-evaluate our belief
>window. I hope that makes sense to you.) The core of
>any ministry is its value system. If you have any
>thoughts on this for the purpose of broadening our
>scope of understanding, feel free to add to this
>discussion. I welcome anyone in UBF to discuss these
>topics in this forum, so we might reason
>together...uh...reasonably. :)
>
>God Bless,
>
>Tom Fosler

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