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Date Posted: 08:40:17 05/27/04 Thu
Author: purplehaze
Subject: Holy Cross /PL Baseball - not serious
In reply to:
Holy Cross 1965
's message, "Holy Cross Baseball" on 11:59:15 05/26/04 Wed
if you follow college baseball, you will note that most leagues (amer east/ big east/ maac / atl 10 etc..)are having their championship tourneys this weekend, with the first round of the ncaa next weekend. b u t, our patriot league has a '4 week' break for the winner of our league before they play their ncaa game(s). the other leagues (with the exception of the ivy) continue to play thru the 3rd weekend in may, (only weekends since exam time).
the ncaa backed up the college world series week one week later into june, a couple of years ago, and therefore most leagues extended their regular seasons to last weekend.
if our league was serious, they wud eliminate a ridiculous 4 week gap for the winner (army this year) and play into mid may, of course, with all consideration given to exam time.
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Re: Holy Cross Baseball -- HC1990, 00:17:37 05/29/04 Sat
I have heard rumors that the football program produces the greatest financial loss out of any team at the college. The basketball team earns $1 million for each trip to the Big Dance. The attendance at games has dramatically increased in the past 10 years whereas the football team can barely fill up 10 percent of the stadium. I have also heard from my cousin who is enrolled there that the students really have no interest in the football team. She consistently comments about cocky players' attitudes and their recent unsuccessful years as the main reason for student attendance declining. What is the overall alumni opinion about the football program? Is there a plan to remove it if these losses continue?
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Re: To HC1990 -- NTKHC64, 10:37:54 05/29/04 Sat
1. "I have heard rumors that the football program produces the greatest financial loss out of any team at the college."
It has been admitted by the athletic director, inter alia, that the football program is operated at a deficit of at least $2,000,000 per annum. This has been mentioned almost 2,000,000 times on this board.
2. "The basketball team earns $1 million for each trip to the Big Dance." Highly overstated.
3. Basketball attendance is up in recent years. I'll leave it to those who attend more frequently to opine as to "dramatically" over a 10 year period.
4. Football atttendance: 6884 per home game 2004. This is based on data from the HC website. Harvard attendance was 10,312 and Colgate 10,166. Colgate had the largest road following at Fitton Field this season.
5. Student interest: Based on games I've attended over the past 6 years, it's not there. The students aren't.
6. Players' attitudes: No knowledge.
7. Overall alumni opinion...There are 28,000 living alumni. Who knows?
8. Removal of program: I infer from the hiring of Tom Gilmore that there is a strong interest in maintaining the program. IMO, if he can't bring it back, I believe there would be definite consideration given to its discontinuance but that is solely a personal opinion. Remember that in 2006 there will be the decennial review of athletics.
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Re: To HC1990 -- NTKHC64, 10:38:20 05/29/04 Sat
1. "I have heard rumors that the football program produces the greatest financial loss out of any team at the college."
It has been admitted by the athletic director, inter alia, that the football program is operated at a deficit of at least $2,000,000 per annum. This has been mentioned almost 2,000,000 times on this board.
2. "The basketball team earns $1 million for each trip to the Big Dance." Highly overstated.
3. Basketball attendance is up in recent years. I'll leave it to those who attend more frequently to opine as to "dramatically" over a 10 year period.
4. Football atttendance: 6884 per home game 2004. This is based on data from the HC website. Harvard attendance was 10,312 and Colgate 10,166. Colgate had the largest road following at Fitton Field this season.
5. Student interest: Based on games I've attended over the past 6 years, it's not there. The students aren't.
6. Players' attitudes: No knowledge.
7. Overall alumni opinion...There are 28,000 living alumni. Who knows?
8. Removal of program: I infer from the hiring of Tom Gilmore that there is a strong interest in maintaining the program. IMO, if he can't bring it back, I believe there would be definite consideration given to its discontinuance but that is solely a personal opinion. Remember that in 2006 there will be the decennial review of athletics.
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Chiming in on HC "revenue" sports -- sader1970, 17:12:09 05/29/04 Sat
I agree that the football program's long-term future depends on whether or not Tom Gilmore can put the pieces back together after more than a decade of decline. I can't speak from firsthand experience but have also heard that some of the football players are perceived to have an "attitude" problem vis-a-vis them and the rest of the campus at large. In the past 5 years, the attendance of the student body at home games was nothing short of pathetic. Alumni and local supporters were hard to come by too. When you have a very large stadium, like Fitton Field, 6,000 bodies makes the stadium look awful empty. If Colgate indeed averaged over 10,000, that had to be wall to wall standing room only at Andy Kerr (which I always thought looked like a glorified high school field). To Coach Gilmore's credit, he's running all over the place to stir up interest and get people to the games in the '04 season. I'll be the first one to jump on the bandwagon to get rid of the football program if Coach Gilmore doesn't show significant progress in the next 4-5 years. And my definition of "significant progress" is coming in 1st or 2nd in the PL on a pretty consistent basis - not moving up to #4 or #5. The school just can't afford to lose all that money because it is NOT positive advertising to be league doormats year after year. I'm a business guy - you need return on your investment. The football program has not brought the alumni back to the school and/or made them feel all warm and fuzzy to make larger contributions; the students couldn't care less; the team has not projected a positive image of the school that would attract new quality students. The players are not losers but the program certainly has been.
As for basketball attendance, I've been going to the games regularly the last 4-5 seasons. Before that, my son was attending HC and the attendance for the ladies games in those days were better than the men's games. That's not the case now. I don't have any official numbers but my perception is that there was a marked decline in attendance last year compared to the previous 3-4 years. Both the men's and ladies teams were frustrating to watch because one always had the feeling they were better than they achieved. The student interest dropped like a stone as the season progressed as in the beginning of the season there seemed to be residual interest from the prior year's success. I feel a lot more comfortable that the BB team had an off-year and will come back strong next season. The football program will take a lot more work.
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Re: Men's Basketball Home Attendance -- NTKHC64, 20:11:47 05/29/04 Sat
Reported on the website as averaging 2,548 per game. No like data found for women.
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Re: Women's Basketball Home Attendance -- DFW HOYA, 20:43:35 05/29/04 Sat
The NCAA posts attendance figures at its web site. No data for 2004 yet, but here's the 2003 totals:
http://www.ncaa.org/stats/w_basketball/attendance/2002-03/d1.pdf
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Re: Women's Basketball Home Attendance -- bikeman, 21:33:20 05/29/04 Sat
Worcester, and area towns, support HC atheletics. At least they used to. It's not HC. It's the Patriot League. This fraud of a division 1 league fools no one but the HC administration. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Leave the PL. Bring back traditional, regional rivalries and watch the interest and revenues rise thru the roof. ANYONE who thinks otherwise HAS NOT A CLUE.
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Re: Women's Basketball Home Attendance-2002-03 -- NTKHC64, 09:20:10 05/30/04 Sun
The average attendance reported at the site provided is 1,972. This put Holy Cross, at 57 out of 322, and # 1 in the PL. Bucknell ranked 2nd in the PL with 1,258, #101. Holy Cross however ranked ahead of a substantial number of "big time" schools. Take a look and see the schools.For example at #58 is UCLA at 1,925.
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is there a realistic league for these rivalries? -- clueless, 21:49:48 05/29/04 Sat
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Andy Kerr Stadium -- Gate Raider, 23:14:55 05/31/04 Mon
Sader1970, it appears it may have been some time since you were at Colgate's football stadium. Perhaps you have not seen the relatively new Fred Dunlap stand, the new aluminium bleachers on the visitor's side and the new press box which was completed last summer. You can'g get a bad seat in the Dunlap stands which are elevated above the field and then rise quite high. Come on down to next year's game and check it out.
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Thanks for the invitation -- sader1970, 09:15:12 06/01/04 Tue
You're right, I haven't been to Andy Kerr since my days living in central NY (Syracuse area - average snowfall 120" a year). I left there in 1987. It sounds like the Raiders have done good things to the stadium, no doubt in anticipation of the upgrade in football. If I'm ever crazy enough to get up that way when there's not a threat of snow (i.e. September through April), I'll take you up on the invitation.
I've been to Colgate on 3-4 occasions over the years and it's a very beautiful campus - ALMOST, but not quite, as nice as Holy Cross'.
With the exception that HC is a Catholic college, Colgate comes closest in size, academic standing and long-term sports competition to qualify for the title "rivals" with the Cross. I hope HC gets into the ECAC to play you guys (and ladies) in hockey to add to the rivalry.
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Com'n now -- Gate Raider, 00:21:36 06/09/04 Wed
There is little chance of snow until late November and Hamilton doesn't get nearly as much as Syracuse. They even stopped operating the on campus ski slope because of iffy snow without snow making abilitiy. If you come be sure to stop in at O'connor Campus Center (the Coop) at the top of the hill. It was refurbished last year and is spectacular. You can warm yourself at the huge circular fireplace while having something hot to drink and wondering why HC can't beat 'gate. BTW I was at the Cross - Gate FB game last year, a beautiful day to conclude our 12-0 season and break alot of rushing records as well. Hope you are in the ECAC, also. I'm still not over the loss to Clarkson in the tournament.
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Re: Agree with Gate Raider -- Go...'gate, 19:14:51 06/11/04 Fri
Hope HC joins the ECAC and you really need to visit the upgraded Andy Kerr; a tremendous improvement from when I was there.
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