ECAC/Ivies - It's Ironic -- CROSSPORTS: Holy Cross Crusaders Sports Message Board

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Date Posted: 15:01:21 06/07/04 Mon
Author: JRGNYR
Subject: ECAC/Ivies - It's Ironic

I had this thought occur to me a few minutes ago. Isn't it ironic that we have both sides of what I'd like to name the Ivy Syndrome at work here?

Case in point: Regarding the ECAC, some have said HC would be the best fit for the conference because of the school's strong academic tradition and it's close ties with the Ivies. Yet on the Patriot League board and in the past on our very own board, there have been ideas about perhaps limiting the number of Ivy opponents in football and otherwise moving away from them in order to find other opponents who are perhaps stronger programs or are higher profile because they participate in post season play.

I'm not singling anybody out and I'm as guilty as the next person is in this respect. But I just find it incredibly ironic and somewhat amusing. Any thoughts?

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Replies:

[> Re: ECAC/Ivies - It's Ironic -- kesiwick, 15:18:13 06/07/04 Mon

apple and oranges -- moving the hockey program from AH to the ECAC is a big step UP for the program -- the ECAC is one the top hockey conferences in the US -- it just so happens that the schools in the league are also top flight academically -- if instead of the ECAC, officials from Hockey East were calling I would also be favor of making the move -- point being that you can be for ECAC membership in hockey and at the same time for limited football play with the Ivies (although I like playing them for lots of reasons and wouldn't want to drop them off our schedule)

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[> Re: ECAC/Ivies - It's Ironic - indeed ! -- Rick, 16:41:37 06/07/04 Mon

The ECAC has been and continues to be dominated by Ivy League schools.

20 years ago the Ivies issued an ultimatum to ------....either downgrade our football program and eliminate football scholarships or forget playing the Ivies in football. ------'s caved and here we firmly sit bringing up the rear for several years in the coveted Patriot League's 'President's Cup' race as an Ivy lackey/wannabe.

Now in 2004 here we are apparantly going to UPGRADE a non-Patriot sport ( two perhaps with women's hockey ) - at the invitation of the Ivy dominated ECAC - so we can continue to frolic in the Ivy mold.

Wonderful....

IMO, it'll be very, very interesting to hear McFarland and Regan put out the spin on this one and how they foresee being competitive in this league....particularly if acceptance of an invite calls for no athletic scholarships being awarded.

I fear another 'Anything for Ivy' song being sung in the distance....

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[> [> Re: ECAC/Ivies - It's Ironic - indeed ! -- kesiwick, 17:10:04 06/07/04 Mon

gee no kidding -- the ECAC is dominated by Ivy schools -- that's news -- We made the choice not to join the Big East. We're not the victim. It would only be ironic if we were a hockey powerhouse jettisoning a rich tradtion to join a mediocre league -- none of that applies here -- The ECAC is more than happy to see us give scholarships, even if just a handful. So again, it's our choice here. We can give them or not. We're not the victims. I'm for upgrading all of our programs but the idea of remaining in the mediocre AH league to spite the Ivies is really silly.

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[> Re: ECAC/Ivies - It's Ironic -- Rick, 18:08:42 06/07/04 Mon

Kes -

Yea honest - no kidding.

" The ECAC is more than happy to see us give scholarships, "

Really....I confess to not having seen that in print from any current Ivy ECAC member reps as part of this process.

"....even if just a handful. "

No good....we had best be planning on a MINIMUM of 10-15 on roster to compete against the unlimited and innovative athletic aid resources of the Ivies.

" So again, it's our choice here. We can give them or not. "

So we have carte blanche on this - an acceptance of an invite will be completely on our terms....is that what you think ?

" I'm for upgrading all of our programs but the idea of remaining in the mediocre AH league to spite the Ivies is really silly. "

I'm all for upgrading our programs as well....and what you suggest as an 'idea' is NOT akin to anything I've stated.

What I don't want - AGAIN - is having any school/league/conference dictate terms and conditions that prevent HC from running IT'S OWN SHIP IN IT'S OWN MANNER or put us at a competitive disadvantage against larger and much more well-healed schools !

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[> [> Re: ECAC/Ivies - It's Ironic -- kesiwick, 20:29:44 06/07/04 Mon

Rick, USCHO.com and insidecollegehockey.com have discussed ad nauseam the wish of many ECAC schools, yes including the Ivies, to not have a "Union College" problem again. In fact, a portion of the face-to-face interviews with all the applicants dealt with the scholarship/financial aid issue. Actually, even now with our creative financing our hockey could easily have won the games they played against Dartmouth and Brown. It's the top half of the ECAC where we'd get in trouble without more aid to attact higher-level talent. But Yale, Princeton, and Union, we'd do ok. As a league, they're perfectly entitled to demand that scholarships be a part of the package and we can say no and stay in our little league. They may also split the difference and add us for academics/athletic history even if we decide against scholarships and another with them. Unless you're Notre Dame, etc. it's usually the league dictating the terms and not the other way around. We have a chance to finally at least have one sport that competes at the top end of college athletics. I do hope we don't screw this opportunity up.

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